It does NOT say that a few will do these things; it say ALL who believe. It does NOT say pick out a few signs that fit your personality and let them be for you; it says ALL signs are for ALL who believe.
THAT is the point, Quix. When God says ALL who belive can DO things, it is NOT tempting Him to believe what He says.
I'm not nit-picking this. I am trying to understand how something that is PLAINLY stated by Jesus Christ can be taken any other way than the way He said it.
Why didn't Paul lay hands on Timothy and heal him of his often stomach infirmities? There MUST be a reason. Or else Paul was out of the will of God, if he had the gift of healing and did not use that gift to heal. THere IS a reason. But you refuse to see it.
I cannot, in good conscience, just let your words go unanswered. But I cannot, in good conscience, argue with my brother in Christ. HERE is a conundrum my FRiend..
It does NOT say that a few will do these things; it say ALL who believe. It does NOT say pick out a few signs that fit your personality and let them be for you; it says ALL signs are for ALL who believe.
And then we're stuck with the apparent contradiction of 1 Corinthians 12 and 14.
If indeed the verse in Mark indicates that ALL who believe SHALL do those things, then the person hanging their hat on that verse needs to explain these verses.....
1 Corinthians 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
1 Corinthians 12:27-31 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts.
Hebrews 2:1-4 1 Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. 2 For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, 4 while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
This is why we're given the Holy Spirit and His power.....
Ephesians 3:14-19 14 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, 16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
Colossians 1:9-14 9 And so, from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God. 11 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. 13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
And right here much of the church is being disobedient with its focus on tongues.....
1 Corinthians 14:1-5 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
All I ever see tongues doing is building up the individual because then every one judged him as *spiritual* having arrived, that is being filled with the Holy Spirit. He's become one of the *have's*.
Seems to me you are TWISTING SCRIPTURE. Yes it’s a very positive statement. Avoid making it sound MORE ALL INCLUSIVE than it is. IT’s not designed to be ALL inclusive around absurdity.
Satan rightly told Christ that the Scripture said angels would hold him up, catch Him if He threw Himself off the temple. But it was still a wrong application of a true Scripture.
The TEMPTING GOD depends on the application. Deliberately playing with snakes to prove that Scripture would be tempting God. Picking up a snake in a pile of firewood like Paul did was NOT tempting God. Same true Scripture. One application is absurd and tempting God and one isn’t.
This is NOT REALLY THAT hard.
The verses do NOT say
“SHALL FOLLOW 100% of THEM THAT BELIEVE IN 100% of ALL SITUATIONS 100% OF THE TIME IN ALL CONTEXTS IN ALL RELATIONSHIPS REGARDLESS OF DEGREES OF FAITH; REGARDLESS OF WHAT GOD’S DOING IN A GIVEN SITUATION; ETC. ETC. ETC.”
Personally, I believe those verses are intended BY GOD to be normative—routinely true in the lives of all believers to some degree—DEPENDING on the needs of the individuals in each daily situation.
I can just imagine someone walks up to an old man sitting on a park bench and begins to pray for the man’s leg for healing. And the man starts hitting him telling him to stop—my leg’s not got a problem. That wouldn’t make much sense. But given your line of reasoning someone could try that because they hadn’t yet had their healing for the day. That’s absurd.
On the other hand, it’s MORE absurd to believe that God would not honor HIS OWN WORD. Christ took great pains to emphasize the rather generic APPLICABILITY OF HIS WORD.
It does NOT say that a few will do these things; it say ALL who believe. It does NOT say pick out a few signs that fit your personality and let them be for you; it says ALL signs are for ALL who believe.
Does NOT have anything to do with personality. IT HAS TO DO WITH THE LEADING OF HOLY SPIRIT IN EACH SITUATION. HOLY SPIRIT IS STILL TO BE IN CHARGE. Sigh.
AND Holy Spirit is IN CHARGE
IN RELATIONSHIP!
He’s NOT a vending machine. Put faith quarters in and get a cookie cutter manifestation of Holy Spirit. HE does NOT work that way.
Yet, HE IS FAITHFUL TO BACK UP FAITH-FILLED OBEDIENCE in response to God’s promises and Word.
THAT is the point, Quix. When God says ALL who belive can DO things, it is NOT tempting Him to believe what He says.
Or course it’s not tempting him to believe what He says. It IS, however, FOOLISHNESS to pretend that He’s saying something He’s not saying.
I'm not nit-picking this. I am trying to understand how something that is PLAINLY stated by Jesus Christ can be taken any other way than the way He said it.
I choose to take you at your words above regardless of appearances.
I would encourage y’all on your side to quit taking what Christ said any other way than the way He said it.
Why didn't Paul lay hands on Timothy and heal him of his often stomach infirmities? There MUST be a reason. Or else Paul was out of the will of God, if he had the gift of healing and did not use that gift to heal. There IS a reason. But you refuse to see it.
Your assumptions are showing again.
I assume that Paul did lay hands on Timothy for healing. Clearly Paul had plenty of faith as many were healed even from his handkerchiefs. However, evidently it was not to be in Timothy’s case—as far as Scripture informs us about it. There’s no evidence that Scripture said all there was to say about it. Sooooo ASSUMING is very hazardous given such little information.
Did that mean Paul was a charlatan? NOT AT ALL. Does Scripture say anything about the WHY? Not at all. Arguing from silence about it is a fool’s errand. It sounds like some hereon are ready to start stoning Paul as a false, counterfeit healer. Nonsense. There’s just some aspects about Timothy’s case that we don’t understand fully.
By NO means does that negate Paul’s gift of healing or gift of miracles or ministry 1/10th of a percent. It just means we don’t understand everything. Trying to hammer that case into preconceived cessationist hogwash is unwise at best.
I cannot, in good conscience, just let your words go unanswered. But I cannot, in good conscience, argue with my brother in Christ. HERE is a conundrum my FRiend..
Civil mutually respectful discourse is fine with me.
In terms of the above, I don’t read any remotely adequate “answer” to my points. I read what comes across as an extremely flawed set of rationalizations for some narrow, rigid, unBiblical, illogical biases about the issues.
What’s puzzling is how so many bright earnest Christians can hold such unBiblical notions about something Scripture is reasonably clear about.