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To: stfassisi
Perhaps our definition of "free" is different. In my mind "free" will is NOT free if a giant fish swallows you and vomits you up on the shore of where you're suppose to go. It's not exactly like God telling Jonah, "Hey, want to rethink your decision? Please?"

As far as Mary goes the scriptures tells us that she submitted to God.

Luk 1:38 And Mary said, "Behold, I am the servant [fn] of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

Mary's "choice" was to submit to the will of God regardless of the consequenses. But even Catholic doctrine is goofy and inconsistent. If God kept Mary absolutely pure, then of course her choice would be to choose the will of God rather than her own will. That is the definition of purity. There is no free choice. You either do your will or God's will.

And, btw, this was not an easy decision for Mary. The whole situation "troubled" her but she was willing to submit to God's will in this instance. And as she exclaim, from this one act of obedience she will be blessed forever.

But to say that Mary followed the Will of God perfectly in every instance and every aspect of her life is simply not so.

Mary could not see the will of God here otherwise she would have known Christ to be in God's house. Like all of us, she simply did not understand God's will. We have to be led to do His will.

Not to minimize the great feats of people like Moses, Abraham, Mary and others, but it makes it a bit easier if an angel pops in and tells you what is God's will for your life. When you don't have these anchor points it is far more difficult to trust that your path is controlled by God and it is the very best for your life. Trust me-I know.

Jhn 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

611 posted on 04/29/2012 3:44:35 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Mary's "choice" was to submit to the will of God regardless of the consequenses.

So far so good,dear brother. It was a choice and not forced.

If God kept Mary absolutely pure, then of course her choice would be to choose the will of God rather than her own will. That is the definition of purity. There is no free choice

The Blessed Mother always CHOOSE the will of God freely-that is free will, Harley. What part about the word choice don't you understand? Choice is a free decision to choose one thing or another,good or bad, love or hate etc...

But to say that Mary followed the Will of God perfectly in every instance and every aspect of her life is simply not so Than you went on to quote Luke 2:48-51

The following illustrates Catholic teaching on these verses by Tim Staples

First verse is Luke 2:48-51: "And when they saw him they were astonished; and his mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously." And he said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?" And they did not understand the saying which he spoke to them. And he went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart." In this passage, Jesus was already beginning to show his glory wasn't he?. He was preaching to the teachers in the temple, and they all were amazed. A twelve year old stumping these learned teachers of the Law. And by Jesus' remark " Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?", you would think that He was indeed planning on showing his glory. But what happens? Mary basically says: "It's not time yet, son, let's go home." Jesus obeyed and "And he went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart."( Luke 2:51).

Hope this helps you understand the Catholic teaching?

612 posted on 04/29/2012 7:00:54 AM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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