Skip to comments.Is Heavenly Mother a headache for Heavenly Father? [Mitt, Lds, have a 'Mom-goddess'-- or thousands]
Posted on 03/27/2012 7:38:38 PM PDT by Colofornian
Listen to these words from the LDS hymn, O My Father: In the heavns are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare! Truth is reason, truth eternal Tells me Ive a mother there. Its a beautiful hymn, written by Eliza R. Snow. We sang it in our ward yesterday. No doubt it was sung in hundreds of other LDS wards and branches. (link)
Its clear Mormons believe in a Heavenly Mother. So why does she gets so little press? My colleague Cal Grondahl quips its because she left Heavenly Father a long time ago. Jokes aside, it may because my faiths doctrine teaches, or has taught, that while theres only one Heavenly Father, theres a lot of Heavenly Mothers. In an earlier blog, I visited an 1853 edition of the LDS publication, The Millennial Star, with an article where Abby tries to persuade Nelly to the virtues of polygamy. (link) Abby argues, Now if God is appointing His sons on the earth to fill thrones and occupy many principalities, and my husband means to be as worthy to fill thrones as others, then I will be content to share with him one throne, and rejoice at the same time to see others share with him other thrones, while my capacity will not allow me to share any more than my own.
Blogger Joanna Brooks talked about a hoped-for Heavenly Mother resurgence in a blog last year (Read) It hasnt occurred in the chapels, although theres a very interesting discussion about our maternal goddess here. BYU Studies published an excellent piece on Heavenly Mothers relevance in Mormonism that can be accessed here...is Heavenly Mother a headache for Heavenly Father? Its an interesting question. Id sure like to hear more about her in church. My guess is that the constant fears about revisiting Mormonisms fascinating history is why there is this sacred silence, as some have called it.
Heavenly Mother was talked about in LDS churches long go, whether by Brigham Young, BH Roberts, etc. What many dont realize is that Mormonism was once a progressive, eccentric religion that shocked everyone. Much of that history has been toned down, to put it mildly, the past few generations. In fact, a generation ago, members were urged by the churchs First Presidency not to talk about Heavenly Mother. Some believe that was a reaction by church leaders worried about feminist efforts to harness Heavenly Mother.
So, is Heavenly Mother a headache for Heavenly Father? Its an interesting question. Id sure like to hear more about her in church. My guess is that the constant fears about revisiting Mormonisms fascinating history is why there is this sacred silence, as some have called it. The doctrine of polygamy, eternal life, godhood, and eternal worlds leads to the conclusions that God is dealing with scores, hundreds, perhaps even thousands of Heavenly Mothers.
Nevertheless, My Heavenly Mother, even if she shares my Heavenly Father with a lot of other spouses, is a god. Id like to learn more about her before I have an opportunity to meet her personally. I bet She can handle it.
When you click on the summary for this article, you find this BYU-sponsored sentence: Contrary to criticism in some quarters, Church leaders have not relegated this deity to a confined role. Statements from the late 1840s onward show that leaders and influential Latter-day Saints have explored her roles as a fully divine being, a creator of worlds with the Father, a coframer of the plan of salvation, and a concerned and involved parent of her children on earth.
There ya go...The Mormons have a "sexy goddess" and they know it...but they still are keeping her roles as co-creators of the worlds and coframer of the plan of salvation kind of under some (not total) wraps from the rest of the "public"...part of their "milk before meat" bait & switch tactics.
Mormon columnist Doug Gibson confirms the "under-wraps" approach with this graph: Heavenly Mother was talked about in LDS churches long go, whether by Brigham Young, BH Roberts, etc. What many dont realize is that Mormonism was once a progressive, ECCENTRIC religion that SHOCKED EVERYONE. Much of that history has been toned down, to put it mildly, the past few generations. In fact, a generation ago, members were urged by the churchs First Presidency not to talk about Heavenly Mother.
(Yeah, just wait til the MSM and the Obama minions get hold of all the shocking details which they will parade before voters in the Summer & Fall of 2012...The BBC was already doing it this week for a mostly European audience...: An Englishwoman's view of The Mormon Candidate documentary on BBC tonight
From the column: The doctrine of polygamy, eternal life, godhood, and eternal worlds leads to the conclusions that God is dealing with scores, hundreds, perhaps even thousands of Heavenly Mothers. Nevertheless, My Heavenly Mother, even if she shares my Heavenly Father with a lot of other spouses, is a god.
There-ya-go...Romney supporters of America...Figures that ya wanna get him in the White House so that he and his legion of Mormon PR agents can train our younger generation that there's really "scores, hundreds, perhaps even thousands of 'Heavenly Mothers'" married as goddesses to a Mormon Polygamist god with quite a sexual appetite...a god that Romney will pray to whenever a crisis hits America.
And, given that there's no such polygamist god in heaven...so much for having such a non-existent god bail out a would-be Romney White House resident.
There is virtually nothing Christian about that cult, as even a cursory examination easily reveals.
What thinking, sane, individual can swallow this stuff? This is the reason I would never vote for bishop Romney. There are plenty enough of other reasons but the simple fact that he believes such nonsense makes him not fit for elective office.
Mitt’s father got into a heap of political trouble by saying that he had been “brain washed” concerning Viet Nam. He was brain washed long before the Viet Nam war and so was Mitt.
If it comes down to Romney vs. Obama, for the first time since I became old enough to vote, I will leave the top of the ticket blank.
In November 1968, I was 23 years old and voted in my first ever presidential election (voting age at the time was 21), I haven’t failed to vote for the Republican candidate since. I feel saddened that I may not get to vote for one this time.
Its a beautiful hymn, written by Eliza R. Snow
This Eliza Snow?
The same one who was married to Joseph as one of his plural wives? The one that Emma Smith beat with a broomstick and then kicked down a flight of stairs? The one who miscarried Joseph's baby as a result of Emma's battery? The one who was barren thereafter despite being frequently visited by Joseph and then later by Brigham after she became one of his plural wives? The one who was sealed for time and all eternity to both prophets? The one whose brother Lorenzo became an LDS prophet and coined that famous couplet that embarrasses Saints that deny its existence until you read it directly from the lds.com website ... the one that goes, "As man now is, god once was. As god now is, man may become."
That Eliza Snow?
Correct me if I am wrong but here is more blasphemy.
According to Mormonism, Mary united with God the Father and Our Lord was born.
That’s not Christian teaching, it’s blasphemy.
Interestingly, it's very similar to a term Joseph probably heard numerous times before his death ... a venereal disease, no less.
How many of you evil Inmans also know?
Anybody care to type it on a keyboard ... being careful not to say it out loud ... before I do?
Let's personalize this mainstream Lds doctrine...Mormons really do believe the following:
"As Mitt Romney now is, god once was. As god now is, Mitt Romney may become."
"As Harry Reid now is, god once was. As god now is, Harry Reid an official Mormon visiting home teacher may become."
Like I said.
Wait til the Dems run with this & with a whole lot more media wattage & $-firepower behind them!
According to Mormonism, Mary united with God the Father and Our Lord was born.
Thats not Christian teaching, its blasphemy.
No correction necessary and welcome to F.R.
Yup. Continue reading. Mormon general authorities...in their own words on the matter:
Example: Some LDS leaders have tried to play it both ways re: describing Mary as a virgin (for example, LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie). Some clearly implied that she wasnt (Brigham Young)
Example of LDS saying Mary was a virgin: "Modernistic teachings denying the virgin birth are utterly and completely apostate and false." (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, page 822. [A CARM writers comment to this was: Let them proclaim it. But quite honestly, I fail to see how the Mormon people can assert that Mary remained a virgin in light of this evidence from their prophets and apostles. I see them saying two different things and backpedaling trying to sound Christian.]
Lets deal with each of those descriptions separately, shall we?
The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit." (Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, Religious Truths Defined, p. 44)
Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says. (McConkie Mormon Doctrine, p. 742, 1966)
Did ya'll catch the conception part here being discussed as part of a normal and natural course of events process? Was McConkie just making that up out of thin air? No. He was simply repeating what earlier LDS prophets have said about this natural process:
...same physical sense that any other man begets a child...:
God created man [as spirit children], as we create our children: for there is no other process of creation in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, or under the earth, or in all eternities, that is, that were, or that ever will be. Journal of Discourses (JoD), vol. 11, p. 122
(OK, Young's quote here = absolute statement that God only has one means of creation, and that the spirit, Jesus, was first created in heaven through the same process as we create our children).
The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and bloodwas begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers. (JoD vol. 8, p. 115)
(Of course, if any poster wants to tell us that they were begotten of their fathers in some other manner that their fathers who partook of flesh and blood--anything other than what Young called a natural action--weve got listening ears)
When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. (JoD, vol. 4, p. 218, 1857)
What was Brigham meaning? When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven. (JoD vol. 1, p. 50, April 9, 1852)
What did Brigham mean by "who is the Father?...first of the human family?
Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. (Millennial Star, Vol. 15, p. 770, 1853)
What other LDS prophets embraced Brighams natural process of begottening?
As the horse, the ox, the sheep, and every living creature, including man, propogates its own species & perpetuates its own kind, so does God perpetuate His. (Lds "prophet" John Taylor, Mediation & Atonement, 1882, p. 165 )
What about other LDS apostles? What did they say about this natural process?
"In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it." (LDS apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 211)
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 547.)
Now Ive cited McConkie twice, and a lot of folks have seen one or both of those quotes, but not nearly as many have seen this following McConkie excerpt where McConkie makes sure we otherstand the literalness of whats he talking about:
We have spoke PLAINLY of our Lords conception in the womb of Mary. I am the son of my father and the father of my sons. They are my sons because they were begotten by me, were conceived by their mother, and came forth from her womb to breathe the breath of mortal life, to dwell for a time and a season among other mortal men. And so it is with the Eternal Father and the mortal birth of the Eternal Son. The Father is a Father is a Father
And the Son is a Son is a Son
a literal, living offspring from an actual Father. God is the Father; Christ is the Son. The one begat the other. Mary provided the womb from which the Spirit Jehovah came forth, tabernacled in clay, as all men are, to dwell among his fellow spirits whose births were brought to pass in like manner. There is no need to spiritualize away the plain meaning of the scriptures. There is nothing figurative or hidden or beyond comprehension in our Lords coming into mortality. He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. It is that simple. Christ was born of Mary. He is the Son of Godthe Only Begotten of the Father. (McConkie, The Promised Messiah, pp. 467-468, 1978 )
I remember reading “Millennial Star.” It was a small-format magazine, and they were everywhere in our house.
Which Heavenly Mother? God is a polygamist.
Nopeth ... unless HF has more that one head squeeze in his celestial harem.
This is a thread you gals might find interesting (and offensive). It is written by am active Mormon (not a lapsed or exmormon).
I thought one of them was called Lilith ???
LOL ... You're in the right general vicinity ... and you're getting warmer. But still no cigar.
Calculating how many wives heavenly father needs (Mormon Math)
Going with the doctrine that Adam is Heavenly Father, and the rabbinical traditions regarding Lilith as being Adams first wife, then it would logically follow that Lilith would be one of God’s wives.
However, to my knowledge LDS teachings are silent on the subject. I would not be surprised if it is Mormon belief among some though.
Good guess, but nope.
Brigham might agree, but others won't.
FWIW, Brigham came up with the Adam / God doctrine ... and Saints have been trying to live with it (and play it down and/or avoid it) ever since.
I need to get back to work ... and I'll guess that this problem is driving you ladies crazy ... so out of a sense of duty and of mercy, I'll spill the beans.
Heavenly Mother's name is Gonhorra! from the Adamic word Gon-horria meaning "Queen Bee." More about that HERE ... see figure 5. You can do a Google search on the terms "Gonhorra Heavenly Mother" for more information. And shame on you all for being so rusty on your Adamic and Book of Abraham.
P.S. Anybody think that it is an amazing coincidence that her name is so close to that VD word?
When I was LDS, I remember being told that Heavenly Mother’s name was ‘too sacred’ to be known. That Heavenly Father loved his wives too much to tell us because we would blaspheme them by taking their names in vain.
So, based on your post, I grabbed my Pearl of Great Price and checked the fascimilie notes.
Fascimilie B - which the site claims has the name of Heavenly mother (at least one of them) is not included in the PGP, nor I had I came across it before other than this site even at the BYU archives after the ‘discovery’ date.
That said, it is possible that the document exists and that Smith ‘translated’ it, however given the ridiculous statements on the site, I would prefer independent examination of the document.
What's V.D.? Mormonisms Variable Doctrine?
I was going by this...Brigham Young, who taught Adam is Heavenly Father, taught that his wife Eve is Heavenly Mother: “I tell you more, Adam is the father of our spirits ... our spirits and the spirits of all the heavenly family were begotten by Adam, and born of Eve. ... I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.”
Apparently Brigham Young taught Adam is Heavenly Father, and that his wife Eve is Heavenly Mother: I tell you more, Adam is the father of our spirits ... our spirits and the spirits of all the heavenly family were begotten by Adam, and born of Eve. ... I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.
Was Young teaching this before the plural marriage teachings came about? I know little about the LDS so have no time line to go by.
Was Young teaching this [Adam-God]before the plural marriage teachings came about?
- - - - -
No. The ‘inner circle’ practiced polygamy before the ‘revelation’ D&C 132 was even given. Polygamy did not become open until after Smith’s death.
So, the teaching of plural marriage (if not the PUBLIC practice) came about before Young started teaching the Adam-God doctrine.
However, it is possible that it was a topic of discussion privately before it became public (like Polygamy), but IIRC the earliest date Young publically taught it was 1873.
Here is a link to more articles that give timelines.
Thanks for the answer and the link.
Amazing that they don’t let her out, with the frenzied appetite false religionist have had from since nearly the beginning of time for the worship of a female as a god. She could even possibly give Mary worship some competition.
Archie also said “Faith is when you believe in something nobody in their right mind would believe in.”
Miss Eliza R. Snow was one of the first (willing) victims of Joseph in Nauvoo. She used to be much at the prophets house he made her one of his celestial brides... . Feeling outraged as a wife and betrayed as a friend, Emma is currently reported as having had recourse to a vulgar broomstick as an instrument of revenge: and the harsh treatment received at Emmas hands is said to have destroyed Elizas hopes of becoming the mother of a prophets son (Dr. W. Wyl, Mormon Portraits, 1886, pp.57-58).
The Mormon writer Claire Noall acknowledged: Willard realized that Emma had refused to believe that any of the young women boarding at the Mansion when it was first used as a hotel had been married to Joseph. She had struck Eliza Snow at the head of the stairs, and Eliza, it was whispered, had lost her unborn child (Intimate Disciple, a Portrait of Willard Richards, 1957, p.407).
Sometime during February of 1843 Emma evidently became aware that Joseph had taken her best friend, Eliza R. Snow, as a plural wife. Eliza was currently living in the Smith home, which housed a number of boarders. LDS historians Linda Newell and Valeen Avery wrote:
When the full realization of the relationship between her friend Eliza and her husband Joseph came to her, Emma was stunned. . . . Although no contemporary account of the incident between Emma and Eliza remains extant, evidence leads to the conclusion that some sort of physical confrontation occurred between the two women. In 1886 Wilhelm Wyl published the first known version of the incident in his book, Joseph Smith the Prophet: His Family and His Friends:
They say . . . there is scarcely a Mormon unacquainted with the fact that Sister Emma . . . soon found out the little compromise arranged between Joseph and Eliza. Feeling outraged as a wife and betrayed as a friend, Emma is currently reported as having had recourse to a vulgar broomstick as an instrument of revenge; and the harsh treatment received at Emmas hands is said to have destroyed Elizas hopes of becoming the mother of a prophets son...
Another story, attributed to LeRoi C. Snow, Elizas nephew, is an oral family tradition that tells of Emma knocking Eliza down the stairs with a broom, the fall resulting in a miscarriage for Eliza. . . .
Whether Eliza fell down the stairs or whether Emma pushed her or pulled her down by the hair, or whether Emma only turned her out of the house, the result seems to be documented in Elizas terse journal entry for February 11, 1843:
Took board and had my lodging removed to the residence of br. [Jonathan] Holmes.
Eliza did not make another entry in her journal for five weeks and wrote no explanation for either the gap in her diary or her abrupt departure from Emmas home. . . .
Several acquaintances of Eliza spoke of Emma discovering Elizas relationship with Joseph, leading to her departure.
The incident between Emma and Eliza forced the issue of plural marriage into the open. Emma could no longer believe that Joseph was not involved, and he could no longer deny it. Emma had not acted with violence before; now her determined opposition might show up again with unexpected force. Joseph resolutely tried to bring Emma around (Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, by Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery, 1994, pp. 134-137).
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHICHAPTER 224 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
Or even HERE:
1 Timothy 3:2-3
2. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3. not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.1 Timothy 3:12
A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.Titus 1:6
An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTSSECTION 1325157, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 5866, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
You HATEful BIGOT!
Trying to use LOGIC and MATH to ‘prove’ My beloved MORMONism is bunk!
—MormonDude(My heart tells me it’s ALL true!!!)
Young taught this for 20 years from the pulpit...so it wasn't just an occasional mention.
So the god of the man that Mormons name their most prestigious university system after is Adam.
"Heavenly Mother; Gonhorra"
Abraham's THIRD wife: O-Rhea!!!
"We believe that Egyptian funerary documents contain sacred messages.
They have been translated -- correctly -- by use of seer stones, such as the Urim and Thumim."
-- Elder O. Lamar LaVerkin, March 1964, Improvement Era.
Thank you for the welcome Graybeard. I am not kidding,
I was banned for posting this Mormon belief below less the use of Romney’s name. This quote is perfectly said.
“As Mitt Romney now is, god once was. As god now is, Mitt Romney may become.”
Silly me, I didn’t realize it was pro-Romney website.
Notice, since yesterday, things misunderstood, untrue or hidden are coming to “light.”
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