[Talisker]

lds do not wear crosses or display crosses because mormonism teaches the lds jesus paid the price in the garden.

lds do not wear crosses or display crosses because mormonism is in no way related to Christianity.

Do you realize you contradicted yourself?

If Mormons believe Jesus "paid the price" in the garden, then Mormons believe... Jesus "paid the price."

That's Christianity.

This bashing has to stop - in the name of Christ.

[SoConPubbie]

This bashing has to stop - in the name of Christ.

Sorry, but this isn't bashing, it's throwing the cold, hard light of day on the inner workings and beliefs of a cult.

[svcw]

Nope.
Jesus Christ, the eternal Christ, paid the price on the Cross and overcame death and rose from the dead.
mormonism teaches a created christ, that paid the price in the garden but lds must work for their salvation.
Jesus Christ of the Bible always was.
The lds christ was once a man who earned a vaulted position.
There is no bashing, there is exposure of mormonism, which as Christins we are to call out false prophets and blasphemy.

[Colofornian]

If Mormons believe Jesus "paid the price" in the garden, then Mormons believe... Jesus "paid the price."

Only if you downgrade the world's sin...as being something that could be overcome with sweat labor via intense prayer...

Only if you downgrade the penalty for sin as being not even worthy of a divine slap on the wrist justice-wise.

Our sin is so depraved...and comprehensive...its scope covering ALL of us...that the Bible proclaims Jesus had to BECOME sin on our behalf -- become a curse on our behalf -- to satisfy God's wrath...See: He Took Our Place: Identity Theft: Recovering Who You Are, Part I [Jesus made to be sin & a curse]

Believe me, had there been another way than...
...the scandalous shameful cross (for a divine being);
...to make the Son of God to BE sin;
...to treat the Son of God as a literal curse (A sense of divine damnation with the wrath of the Father poured out upon the Son of God), then those divine alternatives would have been exercised.

They weren't. (So let's not second guess divine prerogatives)

For more on distinct treatments of the atonement, see:

Calvary or Gethsemane? The Atonement According to Mormonism

[svcw]

Seems to me I remember something somewhere about picking up the Cross and following Him, if the garden was the important item in the “price” the command would be get a wheelbarrow fill it with dirt and follow me.

[Colofornian]

If Mormons believe Jesus "paid the price" in the garden, then Mormons believe... Jesus "paid the price."

To sum up what I was saying in post #27 in even a simpler way:

If a rather intense "convo" between the Son of God and His Father was all that was pivotally needed to overcome sin in this world, Jesus as the Son of God could have stayed in heaven and accomplished that up there.

He didn't need to don dirty diapers & become a baby-turned-man.
He didn't need to deal with a faithless humanity for three years of public ministry.
And the cross would have been a wee bit of an "overkill."

[NavyCanDo]

We all fall short of the Glory of God. Mormon, Catholic, every denomination of Protestant or Jew, and all those in the unbelieving world. Stack all our good deeds up, the Biblical laws we have kept, and all the hours in church or on a mission trip, or in worship on Easter Sundays, and we have not come close to deserving what God has promised.

Our acceptance by God does not come from what church we join, or how good a life we live. The thief on the cross showed us that. By doing the unthinkable, the criminal asked Jesus to have mercy on him in spite of his worthless life. Keep in mind, he was in no position to bargain. There was no “from now on”, no turning over a new leaf for him. He was a dead man talking. He had come to an end of his miserable life. But 4 little heart-felt words “have mercy on me” had Jesus push up on the nail that pierced his feet so he could utter these words, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise”

Those 4-words can be spoken by all human-kind, for he suffered on that cross for all of us. Even Mormons.

[Elsie]

This bashing has to stop - in the name of Christ. (He who commands, must obey.)

Quite an interesting tagline...

...considering that MORMONs do NOT obey the COMMAND found in D&C 132!

---

The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

.

.

.

58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

---

 

58 Now, as touching the law of the ^apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.

59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was ^aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that ^bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ^ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit ^dsin, and I will justify him.

60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse ^aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

62 And if he have ^aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to ^amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be ^bglorified.

64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take ^aHagar to wife.

66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.

[Elsie]

(He who commands, must obey.)

Quite an interesting tagline...

...considering that MORMONs do NOT obey the COMMAND found in SCRIPURE about EATING MEAT in the summertime!

---

 

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 89

 

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

 

1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

 

  1 A ^aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the ^aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and ^bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

  3 Given for a principle with ^apromise, adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints, who are or can be called saints.

  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of ^aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of ^bconspiring men in the last days, I have ^cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

  5 That inasmuch as any man ^adrinketh ^bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, ^apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

  7 And, again, ^astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

  8 And again, tobacco is not for the ^abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome ^aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with ^aprudence and ^bthanksgiving.

  12 Yea, ^aflesh also of ^bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used ^csparingly;

  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be ^aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or ^bfamine.

  14 All ^agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

  15 And ^athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

  16 All grain is good for the ^afood of man; as also the ^bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ^ashall receive ^bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

  19 And shall ^afind ^bwisdom and great ^ctreasures of ^dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

  20 And shall ^arun and not be ^bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the ^adestroying angel shall ^bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

---

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“If Mormons believe Jesus “paid the price” in the garden, then Mormons believe... Jesus “paid the price.” “

Not so. Sweating is not where atonement and redemption happened. That required the giving of a life and blood.
If mormonism taught Jesus paid the price, they would not be focused on the worldly attainment of worthiness.

[Caipirabob]

Morning all...Talisker - one of the key issues we've been discussing is trying to reconcile the facts of mormon practices with how the democrats are going to portray mormon practices come the election.

It's a tremendous concern. The democrats are going to launch an assault of such magnitude against romney and his faith such as the world has not seen since Hitler's days.

We need to separate fact from fiction if we are going to be able to stop the onslaught.

Please take a moment to see these video's from Glenn Beck's site to see how obama's media dogs are already attacking the mormon faith.

The big problem with this issue is that there is already plenty of ammo that supports the history of institutionalized discrimination practiced by the mormon church.

Our attacks are nothing more than an examination of the direct text of the BOM. The rats are rapidly showing they are easily more viscious with their accusations. Is it the truth or not? Many of us aren't familiar enough to know and we are researching it as fast as possible and discussing it with family and friends.

If I go by literal interpretations of the BOM, say in Nephi, Jacob or Alma, then I'm left with the impression that plenty of damage can be done to the mormon church based on their religious doctrine. If I go with what I've read of direct quotes by their leadership over the years, I'm left with a worse impression.

This is deeply troubling information and we are trying to digest it in a short time before it's too late and this election turns into a total disaster.

I would encourage you to read and research as well. It's critical we all understand the facts we are dealing with.

[ReformationFan]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%209:22&version=ESVUK

“Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.”

[reaganaut]

If Mormons believe Jesus “paid the price” in the garden, then Mormons believe... Jesus “paid the price.”

That’s Christianity.

- - - - -
Um...no. And they believe it was only a loan, that we have to pay back, not paid the price in our place. I can give you LDS sources that state that.

Before you rebuke my sister in Christ, study Mormonism in depth. Mormons are not and will never be Christians. If a Mormon accepts Christ, they leave like I did.