Posted on 04/24/2012 1:28:27 PM PDT by Jeff Head
As I stood in front of the new Mormon Temple in Liberty, Mo., it struck me as ironic that close to 175 years ago, Mormons were forced out of this same state.
Whereas the Missouri public once urged their governor to force Joseph Smith and his followers out of the area surrounding Kansas City, Mormons began to return to the region in the 1900s, eventually gathering in such large numbers that the Church organization decided the region needed a temple.
Which is why I came to visit.
Latter Day Saints restrict temple access to members of their denomination who have proven themselves to be faithful and dedicated adherents. Because Mormons believe temples are the most sacred places on earth, one needs to be prepared to enter them by being an active member of the Church. (In contrast, chapels, where Mormons hold Sunday worship, are open to everyone. Temples are used only for certain rituals and are not open on Sunday so that Mormons can be at their chapel services.)
When a new temple is built, anyone may enter prior to its dedication. So, always curious to learn about the faith of others, I didn't want to miss an opportunity to see a site normally closed off to an Episcopal priest like myself.
My visit seemed all the more timely because Mormons have been in the news a lot lately, and so have their temples. Elizabeth Smart recently married her husband in a temple in Hawaii during a ceremony called a sealing, in which the couple and close Mormon friends and family gather together to witness God joining the couple together for time and all eternity. In less complimentary news, Elie Wiesel took Mitt Romney to task for his faith's practice of baptisms of the dead, which also take places within temple walls.
These headlines, in addition to my own curiosity, motivated my visit to the new temple in Kansas City, and with my curiosity came some questions:
What does a Mormon temple look like, and what happens inside it?
Would I feel God's presence in this space, even though it's not a space that's sacred for me?
Before I go any further -- and because I know it's the question at the front of your mind, dear reader -- no one tried to convert me. In fact, everyone was very welcoming. Members volunteered en masse, clad in pressed suits and dresses. They offered guided tours, bent down to put protective boots onto my feet so my shoes wouldn't dirty the carpeting, and offered me a chewy snickerdoodle at the end of the tour. They showed me every space from changing rooms to sealing rooms where marriages take place and answered every question I asked, no matter how challenging or controversial.
And in the end, yes, I did have a God moment.
But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Mormons go to temples to be close to God. Much like the ancient Jewish people believed God lived at the heart of the temple in Jerusalem, Mormons believe that followers can meet God most intimately in the temple. The reasons they visit temples vary: In addition to having their marriages sealed in the temple, Mormons also have sealing ceremonies that unite parents and children for time and all eternity. Others come to participate in baptisms of the dead, which are intended to be used only for deceased family members of active Mormons, though the Church acknowledged in the wake of Elie Wiesel's comments that others -- such as Anne Frank -- have had baptisms performed on their behalf. These baptisms are not intended to convert the deceased but rather to give them a choice in the afterlife to embrace the revelation of Mormonism: Assuming an afterlife exists, the baptized deceased are free to say yes or no as they please. Finally, Mormons come to the temple to receive their endowment, a ritual ceremony where followers make promises to God and receive knowledge about God.
Unlike a cathedral, which is primarily composed of one large worship space, a Mormon temple has a variety of smaller rooms that serve different purposes. There are sealing rooms and rooms for men and women to change into white clothes (every male or female Mormon who enters a dedicated temple wears the same white clothing) and instruction rooms where individuals learn about God in preparation for receiving their endowments.
It was in these rooms, and the final Celestial Room, where I caught a glimpse of God.
You see, as part of our final stop on the tour, our guide took us to a room with a mural of the Missouri countryside painted by a local artist. The room had earthy colors, browns and greens and rows of cushioned seats. This was the first instruction room. From there, we took a step up -- as if ascending closer to heaven -- and entered a second room, similar to the first in shape and size but all white. This was the second instruction room. When we left that room, we took another step up and entered the Celestial Room, a space designed to give those who sit in it a foretaste of heaven.
It was a simple room yet ornate at the same time, all white with sparkling crystal chandeliers, large mirrors, and plump sofas and chairs reminiscent of those that must have existed in Joseph Smith's day. Our guide asked us to be silent and said we were welcome to sit wherever we liked and take a moment to pray. So I sat down on a sofa that seemed to envelop me, folded my hands on my lap and closed my eyes.
Like Dante, who saw God face to face but had no words to describe the encounter, I have few words to describe what I felt in that moment. But I can say this: While it did not convert me, nor did it make me want to be a Mormon, the silence and peace I felt reminded me of the many other times I've felt close to God, whether in an Episcopal cathedral, in a clear, warm ocean or in my ratty old car. And because of that, I came to understand why temples exist and why they are so important to Mormons across the world.
And along the lines of Mormons being across the world: As I wrote earlier, Mormons were ironically driven out of Liberty, Missouri and the surrounding region nearly 175 years ago. It cannot be lost on those who visit the new temple that almost two centuries later, Mormons are often still held in suspicion by society, but they are far from being as vulnerable as they were in their early years. They are building stronger foundations every day, and striving, as they do so, to catch a glimpse of heaven.
HMMmm...
4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
This is the audio clip of Dallin H. Oaks, current Mormon Apostle leader, from the PBS documentary, "The Mormons", declaring unequivocally:
"IT'S WRONG TO CRITICIZE LEADERS OF THE (MORMON) CHURCH, EVEN IF THE CRITICISM IS TRUE."Don't criticize?
1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?
2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?
4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
5 Do you live the law of chastity?
6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?
7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?
9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
10 Are you a full-tithe payer?
11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?
12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?
13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:
Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?
15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)
I see you have chosen IGNORE yet again.
Heck; I'll settle for ANY proof!
As well what is the difference between GOD and god? What do you conceive heaven to be? Do you see it as where we do nothing but go around playing harps? Or will we have assigned positions which can even mean having some authority in heaven? The Bible hints toward having a place a position perhaps a task we are to do in heaven. We know some hold positions of power like The Twenty Four Elders and like Abraham whom was petitioned by a man who's soul was in torment.
In short we really honest to goodness don't know. Are the mansions in The Fathers House planets? Who knows? We really don't know for certain.
We are created in GOD's image. Define His image. Who has seen it and lived too tell about it? Are were created solely in the spiritual image or both the spiritual and physical image with the imperfections placed upon mankind when sin entered the world in Eden?
I've seen you arguments made about Smith made about the Pope as far as salvation through Christ and our deeds. Personally I lean toward salvation solely through Jesus Christ by GOD's Grace.
There are many, many, things we mortals with carnal minds can not comprehend including the events which happened before the earth was formed. We tend to put everything into a context we can understand or are familiar with like father and son or mother and daughter.
We understand physical relation in being mother and father etc but how accurate is our spiritual concept of such? Faith a belief in Jesus Christ for salvation can move mountains and can overcome mans shortcomings in theology as it can sin.
In the mean time there are some churches professing to be Christian even using Christ name in their church name but are wishing to silence the very mention of His name in public and they are not LDS.
The LDS have a very strong and organized missionary program. They come closer to spreading the Gospel and giving service to others than a lot of main stream churches do. Perhaps it is a jealousy of them and their works?
Reply 186 for you as well.
People go to hell of their own free will.
Grace because of Jesus Christ gave us the only way.
"Christ took care of my sins with His atonement and I have repented (as He commanded us to) and come unto Him and accepted His atonement and great gift in my life. I am not perfect...but will be perfected through Him. As an imperfect human, I still do wrong things...we all do...but His atonement is sufficient for me and I do as He commanded and take the sacrement in rememberance of Him each week and the convenant I made with Him when I accepted His atonement and great gift in my life. As I have said many times to you now on this thread...I am content to let Him judge me accordingly...and look forward to that day, whenever it shall come in His time."
Jeff, in this post, you refer to Christ, but I wonder which Christ you are referring to?
Are you referring to the Biblical Christ, the eternal Son of God, neither created, nor made, but eternally God - the SAME God as God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, the Triune God - the creator of heaven and earth, the One God who provided the Gospel of Grace that provides salvation for all humans who are unworthy?
- OR -
Are you referring to the mormonic Christ, a created spirit being, who later became one of 4 Mormon Earth Gods: Heavenly Father, The Mormon Jesus, The Holy Ghost, and Heavenly Mother, and one of thousands or perhaps millions of mormon gods spread throughout the galaxies?
These two Christs have nothing in common except the their name. Which are you referring to in your post?
I would like to thank your for your defense of the blaspheming mormonism, at least you are trying.
You want to be in the camp of degrading and mocking Jesus Christ of the Bible that is your free will choice.
lds do not spread the “Gospel” they spread Joseph Smith’s bastardization of his version of God Almighty’s Word.
Jesus Christ’s Grace is simple, it is offered freely.
Go ahead and search every church doctrine and Dogma in the world wishing too find errors and flaws. You won't be disappointed. Kinda like a few persons sitting on AMEN PEW just waiting for the preacher to innocently misspeak so it can be made a scandal and destroy him.
I've observed to Jeff publicly that his posts appear carefully crafted to sound Christian, while I can only suppose, avoiding answering the full truth of what mormonism teaches (and what he presumably believes), in order (apparently) to hide the truth. I see no other explanation and have received carefully crafted responses every time I have followed up with him.
If by a wild tear in the space time continuum, Jeff provides "a straight answer", please ping me. I'd love to see one.
I have asked him two simple and clear questions on this thread, which are yet to be answered...
Thanks, AMPU
No it isn't. It refers too both good and evil and the difference between the two fruits. It refers to what the individuals deeds produce and it can mean good or evil. If good comes of the workers labor and the works are good {done to the Glory of GOD} it is good fruit and good fruit comes forth from them. If the worker does evil the resulting fruit will be evil. Christ described it plainly.
Matthew ch 7 15“Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep, but are really wolves that will tear you apart. 16You can detect them by the way they act, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit. You don’t pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles. 17A healthy tree produces good fruit, and an unhealthy tree produces bad fruit. 18A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. 19So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. 20Yes, the way to identify a tree or a person is by the kind of fruit that is produced.
GOD Bless you and your family. And indeed evidence shows He has done just that :>}
"We may talk of men being redeemed by the efficacy of his [Christ's] blood; but the truth is that that blood has no efficacy to wash away our sins. That must depend upon our own action." [ LDS Apostle Amasa M. Lyman, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 299, 1859]
And here are seven references from The Bible which show this mormonic teaching to be the anti-Christian/spirit of anti-christ:
Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Given this mormonic teaching that is the very essence of Antichrist, it is still amazing how much you LDS inc apologists want folks to believe LDS inc is Christianity restored!
Yet, you defend mormonism.
Be my guest, it is your free will choice.
You don't get it. I don't have to agree with a church's dogma to treat another person who confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior as a brother or sister in Christ. I've also been known to defend Catholics and The Pope will that too earn me condemnation to hell? I look at it like I do the churches up in my neck of the woods who take the last few verses of Mark literally. Do I believe their faith is strong? Yes. Are they going to hell for picking up snakes? No. Will it get them into heaven any faster than someone who doesn't do so? No. Do we need to do so simply to prove our faith? IMO No. They think a person needs too but that is their belief. I'll stay out in the car or better yet not stop in thank you. I'm scared of snakes not snake handlers :>}
Oh I get it. You must then also mean all those who teach we must go through a final purging after death in order to be cleansed by Christ Blood are also going to hell as well? I don’t think so.
No, apparently you do not get it.
When lds say jesus they mean: a created being
When lds say god they mean: a man who became a god
When lds say salvation they mean: working with no assurance, no cross but garden, Joseph Smith is involved, jesus is not sufficient
You can go right ahead and defend the blasphemy of mormonism that is your free will choice.
I know mormonism and it is not what the PR machine wants you to think.
mormoism can not be my brother and sister in the Biblical Christ, as my Savior is not the brother of satan, for them he is.
I disagree with a lot of different churches doctrines and see a lot of unnecessary in many of them. That doesn't mean I think they are going to hell. Nor should I treat such with bitter contempt either. It is not a persons church which determines their salvation. It is their own individual heart toward Christ and GOD.
If a persons tells me they believe Jesus Christ is the Son Of God Lord and Savior that suffices for me unless I then see them cheating on their wife, etc. BTW I've seen that in plenty of the accepted by society churches. One was a Charismatic I worked with. He wasted no time preaching to me. Nor did he waste not an opportunity to cheat on his wife. I am talking about individuals here.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
