Posted on 04/24/2012 1:28:27 PM PDT by Jeff Head
As I stood in front of the new Mormon Temple in Liberty, Mo., it struck me as ironic that close to 175 years ago, Mormons were forced out of this same state.
Whereas the Missouri public once urged their governor to force Joseph Smith and his followers out of the area surrounding Kansas City, Mormons began to return to the region in the 1900s, eventually gathering in such large numbers that the Church organization decided the region needed a temple.
Which is why I came to visit.
Latter Day Saints restrict temple access to members of their denomination who have proven themselves to be faithful and dedicated adherents. Because Mormons believe temples are the most sacred places on earth, one needs to be prepared to enter them by being an active member of the Church. (In contrast, chapels, where Mormons hold Sunday worship, are open to everyone. Temples are used only for certain rituals and are not open on Sunday so that Mormons can be at their chapel services.)
When a new temple is built, anyone may enter prior to its dedication. So, always curious to learn about the faith of others, I didn't want to miss an opportunity to see a site normally closed off to an Episcopal priest like myself.
My visit seemed all the more timely because Mormons have been in the news a lot lately, and so have their temples. Elizabeth Smart recently married her husband in a temple in Hawaii during a ceremony called a sealing, in which the couple and close Mormon friends and family gather together to witness God joining the couple together for time and all eternity. In less complimentary news, Elie Wiesel took Mitt Romney to task for his faith's practice of baptisms of the dead, which also take places within temple walls.
These headlines, in addition to my own curiosity, motivated my visit to the new temple in Kansas City, and with my curiosity came some questions:
What does a Mormon temple look like, and what happens inside it?
Would I feel God's presence in this space, even though it's not a space that's sacred for me?
Before I go any further -- and because I know it's the question at the front of your mind, dear reader -- no one tried to convert me. In fact, everyone was very welcoming. Members volunteered en masse, clad in pressed suits and dresses. They offered guided tours, bent down to put protective boots onto my feet so my shoes wouldn't dirty the carpeting, and offered me a chewy snickerdoodle at the end of the tour. They showed me every space from changing rooms to sealing rooms where marriages take place and answered every question I asked, no matter how challenging or controversial.
And in the end, yes, I did have a God moment.
But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Mormons go to temples to be close to God. Much like the ancient Jewish people believed God lived at the heart of the temple in Jerusalem, Mormons believe that followers can meet God most intimately in the temple. The reasons they visit temples vary: In addition to having their marriages sealed in the temple, Mormons also have sealing ceremonies that unite parents and children for time and all eternity. Others come to participate in baptisms of the dead, which are intended to be used only for deceased family members of active Mormons, though the Church acknowledged in the wake of Elie Wiesel's comments that others -- such as Anne Frank -- have had baptisms performed on their behalf. These baptisms are not intended to convert the deceased but rather to give them a choice in the afterlife to embrace the revelation of Mormonism: Assuming an afterlife exists, the baptized deceased are free to say yes or no as they please. Finally, Mormons come to the temple to receive their endowment, a ritual ceremony where followers make promises to God and receive knowledge about God.
Unlike a cathedral, which is primarily composed of one large worship space, a Mormon temple has a variety of smaller rooms that serve different purposes. There are sealing rooms and rooms for men and women to change into white clothes (every male or female Mormon who enters a dedicated temple wears the same white clothing) and instruction rooms where individuals learn about God in preparation for receiving their endowments.
It was in these rooms, and the final Celestial Room, where I caught a glimpse of God.
You see, as part of our final stop on the tour, our guide took us to a room with a mural of the Missouri countryside painted by a local artist. The room had earthy colors, browns and greens and rows of cushioned seats. This was the first instruction room. From there, we took a step up -- as if ascending closer to heaven -- and entered a second room, similar to the first in shape and size but all white. This was the second instruction room. When we left that room, we took another step up and entered the Celestial Room, a space designed to give those who sit in it a foretaste of heaven.
It was a simple room yet ornate at the same time, all white with sparkling crystal chandeliers, large mirrors, and plump sofas and chairs reminiscent of those that must have existed in Joseph Smith's day. Our guide asked us to be silent and said we were welcome to sit wherever we liked and take a moment to pray. So I sat down on a sofa that seemed to envelop me, folded my hands on my lap and closed my eyes.
Like Dante, who saw God face to face but had no words to describe the encounter, I have few words to describe what I felt in that moment. But I can say this: While it did not convert me, nor did it make me want to be a Mormon, the silence and peace I felt reminded me of the many other times I've felt close to God, whether in an Episcopal cathedral, in a clear, warm ocean or in my ratty old car. And because of that, I came to understand why temples exist and why they are so important to Mormons across the world.
And along the lines of Mormons being across the world: As I wrote earlier, Mormons were ironically driven out of Liberty, Missouri and the surrounding region nearly 175 years ago. It cannot be lost on those who visit the new temple that almost two centuries later, Mormons are often still held in suspicion by society, but they are far from being as vulnerable as they were in their early years. They are building stronger foundations every day, and striving, as they do so, to catch a glimpse of heaven.
your replyGet thee behind me, Satan!"
I want there too be no misunderstanding here. I said in post 292 the following
"Peter's deeds or policies toward unconverted Jews and his still hanging on to being Jewish. Galatians 2 tells what happened. Paul had to correct Peters behavior."
Here are the verse I was referring to
11But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him publicly, speaking strongly against what he was doing, for it was very wrong. 12When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile Christians, who don’t bother with circumcision. But afterward, when some Jewish friends of James came, Peter wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore because he was afraid of what these legalists would say. 13Then the other Jewish Christians followed Peter’s hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was influenced to join them in their hypocrisy. 14When I saw that they were not following the truth of the Good News, I said to Peter in front of all the others, “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you trying to make these Gentiles obey the Jewish laws you abandoned? 15You and I are Jews by birth, not ‘sinners’ like the Gentiles. 16And yet we Jewish Christians know that we become right with God, not by doing what the law commands, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be accepted by God because of our faith in Christ—and not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be saved by obeying the law.”£
I will assume you innocently misquoted me.
Now GOD did in Acts tell Peter {from the sheet with unclean food being lowered to him and told to eat"} that the Gentiles were clean and he could associate and minister to them but that was not what I was referring to.
Well, I’m a Methodist. Obviously, I differ with the church’s teachings.
Acts ch 7 v 57Then they put their hands over their ears, and drowning out his voice with their shouts, they rushed at him. 58They dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. The official witnesses took off their coats and laid them at the feet of a young man named Saul.£
Or the KJV same verse 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
Yes I know The Word Game you are fixing to play. Paul had their clothes or do you wish to dispute that as well. It was the same Saul as Paul Chaprt 8 v 1 1Saul was one of the official witnesses at the killing of Stephen.
Saul the name of Paul before conversion.
I own about 30 acres of a ridge. It rises over 300ft elevation from lower part too upper at the top of the ridge or 450 ft off the valley floor. From my living room I'm looking out over a valley below me and the ridge behind me at my back window. Up on top of the ridge at the property line I can see two mountain ranges the Cumberlands to my north and Appalachians to my east. I can see into North Carolina, Virginia, Kentucky, likely upper Georgia as well. But to see north it has to be in the winter.
Oh my goodness. I can understand the rule for likely when it was written. Just like I can understand a lot of the old laws of Moses for when they were written. Most were health related. A wonderful invention has happened called modern refrigeration making long term meat storage safe. Before that you had to use salt {pretty unhealthy in such quanities} or let the unused portions rot {a waste}.
I know, preaching to the choir . . . .
Having fun? What you are saying and what I was saying are STRICTLY difference in how we read it. I believe there were Jews at Jerusalem for The Pentocost from many nations. Now Who left and Who stayed? In my understanding the ones who heard the message and rejected it left. Others which believed it likely far less in number than those who rejected the mesasage and those believers stayed and became part of that community. If the ones who left did not believe no spreading of The Gospel by them.
Nope.
I merely remembered one spot where GOD (Jesus) rebuked Peter.
I didn't pay any attention to whom had actually typed the thing I was replying to.
I guess I should have emphasised the VERY part of the young man statement.
I can't.
The 'rule' still stands as SCRIPTURE!
And ANYONE who possesses a MORMON Temple Recommend SWEARS that they follw the rule; do they not?
(#11)
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Temple Recommend Questions
1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost? 2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer? 3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days? 4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church? 5 Do you live the law of chastity? 6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church? 7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? 8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel? 9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen? 10 Are you a full-tithe payer? 11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom? 12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations? 13 If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple? 14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been? 15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances? |
Conjecture.
If he were older he would have helped in the stoning. IOW at that time holding no position as elder within his Temple. He likely would have been of Temple legal age of accountability most likely what is it 12 or 13? I can't remember off the top of my head.
Words I did not post you tried to put me as saying
(quoting Nana) “....where God Himself had to correct Peter’s behavior ???” “
your replyGet thee behind me, Satan!”
Now GOD did in Acts tell Peter {from the sheet with unclean food being lowered to him and told to eat”} that the Gentiles were clean and he could associate and minister to them but that was not what I was referring to.
____________________________________________________
However that is what I was referring to...
OK...I give up. (You lost me)
Who's hangin' onto any grudge?
(1) I'm not ex-Mormon;
(2) MY Lds family/relatives are dear people whom I love -- none have offended me re: any relational interactions
Do you just go around judging complete strangers' personal inward motivations?
Acts ch 21 25“As for the Gentile Christians, all we ask of them is what we already told them in a letter: They should not eat food offered to idols, nor consume blood, nor eat meat from strangled animals, and they should stay away from all sexual immorality.”
I'm pretty certain at a family reunion in the summertime I saw my cousins who are LDS eating hamburgers. In this family it's that, sandwhich meat, or don't eat at events like that. LOL
HUH? Look I was simply talking about and making a point about forgiveness requirements in The Bible and not about you. I was replying to what was posted in 335 related to forgiveness. I was simply saying why it is important and implied no other meaning to anyone person in general.
a question you are unable to answer
In my understanding the ones who heard the message and rejected it left.
I never knew Luke was the author of Second Opinions.
If the ones who left did not believe no spreading of The Gospel by them.
Again, wheres the proof? there is nothing that required them to remain in Jerusalem. Being mobile, they could have taken the light of the gospel revealed to them with them back to their homes intending to return again. Once again, you have to argue against Luke and his extensive listing of the countries from which the visiting Jews were from.
But keep trying snipe buddy. There is nothing incompatible with these initial converts going home shortly afterwards and the church being forces out of Jerusalem a couple of years later into the surrounding nations.
Acts chapter 2
41Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church—about three thousand in all. 42They joined with the other believers and devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, sharing in the Lord’s Supper and in prayer. 43A deep sense of awe came over them all, and the apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders. 44And all the believers met together constantly and shared everything they had. 45They sold their possessions and shared the proceeds with those in need. 46They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity—47all the while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people. And each day the Lord added to their group those who were being saved.
So where did the others who were there that did not believe them go? Likely home. Keep in mind they came too observe a Jewish tradition and not too hear what they heard.
There is nothing incompatible with these initial converts going home shortly afterwards and the church being forces out of Jerusalem a couple of years later into the surrounding nations.
Yes there is but you just want to argue about it. One thiong is staying in communication. It wasn't like hey let's call Brother Peter. Where people went too they walked. Time, Distance, and Communications meant everything. Do you ignore chapter 6 and the problems which were beginning to happen within the believers community? It shows Jews from different nations still there even as far away as Greece. The Bible shows us this was a fast growing community. On to Chapter 8 what does it say about Stephens death?
A great wave of persecution began that day, sweeping over the church in Jerusalem, and all the believers except the apostles fled into Judea and Samaria. 2(Some godly men came and buried Stephen with loud weeping.) 3Saul was going everywhere to devastate the church. He went from house to house, dragging out both men and women to throw them into jail.
4But the believers who had fled Jerusalem went everywhere preaching the Good News about Jesus. 5Philip, for example, went to the city of Samaria and told the people there about the Messiah. 6Crowds listened intently to what he had to say because of the miracles he did. 7Many evil spirits were cast out, screaming as they left their victims. And many who had been paralyzed or lame were healed. 8So there was great joy in that city.
It shows Jews from different nations still there even as far away as Greece.
LOL, you forget that the Greeks maintained an extended period of control on Israel. Many had returned ancestral homeland after the diaspora who's primary language was Greek. Fact is that these Hellenists and Hebraists had their own separate synagogues in Jerusalem long before the start of the church. Hint - this was long, long before the beginning of the church.
Now as for you saying that I said The Holy Spirit "Punished" them? I said no such thing. Here is my words.
But looking deeper were the chosen twelve immediately after The Resurrection doing what they were actually told in The Great Commission? Not really. They were staying in Jerusalem living and dwelling with each other until the death of Stephen which began the persecution in earnest and which resulted in The Gospel reaching far places. The Shepherd was struck and the flock scattered. The Disciple and Apostles as well were corrected by The Holy Spirit.
Notice the . in the sentences between The Shepherd was struck and the flock scattered. and then I posted The Disciple and Apostles as well were corrected by The Holy Spirit. I did not say The Shepherd was struck and the flock scattered because The Disciple and Apostles as well were corrected by The Holy Spirit. The Persecution came because of the Temple Leadership, The Roman leadership, and later a man named Saul of Taurus. When the persecution happened what happened next? There's Phillip lead by The Holy Spirit. Read from Act ch 8 v 4 on through the chapter. The Disciples left Jerusalem. This lead to what? Many more missions.In Chapter 9 Peter is staying a long time in Joppa. Chapter 9 Peter is on the Med Sea coast in Caesarea .
Chapter 11 v 19Meanwhile, the believers who had fled from Jerusalem during the persecution after Stephen’s death traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch of Syria. They preached the Good News, but only to Jews. 20However, some of the believers who went to Antioch from Cyprus and Cyrene began preaching to Gentiles£ about the Lord Jesus. 21The power of the Lord was upon them, and large numbers of these Gentiles believed and turned to the Lord.
What would have happened had the believers not left Jerusalem? Were or were not the Disciples lead by The Holy Spirit to go to into different places rather than simply establishing the church in Jerusalem ? Thus a correction.
Why the needed correction? Several things. There was some misconceptions at first as to when Christ was returning. Some thought for example the Disciple John would not die before Christ returned. John Ch 21 v 22-23 that is discussed. I think John was likely the last to die though as his death is in the 90's AD.
I think I have with scripture shown what I have said. I believe if The Gospel was being spread by ones who were at Pentecost and left The Scriptures would say so. The references to I see The Gospel spreading outside Jerusalem have to do with the persecution beginning with Stephen.
Also Chapter 1 they were clearly told to stay in Jerusalem till when? Then they were to do what?
Acts ch 1 1Dear Theophilus: In my first book£ I told you about everything Jesus began to do and teach 2until the day he ascended to heaven after giving his chosen apostles further instructions from the Holy Spirit. 3During the forty days after his crucifixion, he appeared to the apostles from time to time and proved to them in many ways that he was actually alive. On these occasions he talked to them about the Kingdom of God. 4In one of these meetings as he was eating a meal with them, he told them, “Do not leave Jerusalem until the Father sends you what he promised. Remember, I have told you about this before. 5John baptized with£ water, but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” The Ascension of Jesus 6When the apostles were with Jesus, they kept asking him, “Lord, are you going to free Israel now and restore our kingdom?” 7“The Father sets those dates,” he replied, “and they are not for you to know. 8But when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, you will receive power and will tell people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
Though an act of Jewish rulers the persecution brought the Gospel out of Jerusalem and Israel. From that point on The Holy Spirit was bringing change within the churches and the chosen Disciples and Apostiles.
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