Daughter of LDS Bishop Warns Against Mormonism and Romney Presidency ['Of two evils...neither']

Christian News Network ^ | Oct. 13, 2012 | Heather Clark

[Ransomed]

I reckon it comes down to how much one trusts opinion polling. It seems to me one takes a risk when you base your vote on reports of what other folks say they will do when asked by strangers (who themselves might be biased) over the phone about it.

Freegards

[Colofornian]

Here's the difference: we are at war with Islam (whether Western governments choose to admit it or not).

Well, Mormonism has been "at war" with Christianity for the past 180 plus years, whether GoP voters want to concede that or not.

You see, when you call yourself a "restoration" -- and claim all Christian sects are part of some universal apostasy -- that's a basic "scorched earth" approach to the labeling of worldwide Christianity and all of the Christians that encompasses. That was Joseph Smith's approach -- to attempt a massive spiritual graveyard that would "bury" Christianity.

...because a Muslim may not take the side of infidels against fellow Muslims.

You do realize, don't you that Mormonism and Islam are on the same page in numerous theological ways -- one of which surrounds the use of that word "infidel"?

Muslims deem all Christians as "infidels"...Official Mormonism deems all Christians as "apostates."

[Colofornian]

I reckon it comes down to how much one trusts opinion polling. It seems to me one takes a risk when you base your vote on reports of what other folks say they will do when asked by strangers (who themselves might be biased) over the phone about it.

Well, it's not 100% about opinion-polling.

#1...we know which states went Obama in '08...though we know some of them will flip back in '12.

#2 We also know which states have been "POTUS-blue" -- and conversely "POTUS-red" going back numerous elections.

IoW, you don't have to be a "poll truster" to know that Utah will be safely in Romney's camp -- and that if 100% of FREEPERs voted for a third-party candidate -- that Romney would still easily take Utah.

[muir_redwoods]

How much does the Obama campaign or Daily Kos pay you to spout this ignorant nonsense? This countrys first amendment guarantees freedom of religion and honorable people, for over two hundred years, have kept individual choice of religion out of politics. Your addition to the conversation is ignorant intolerance of the most basic personal choice.

Your Virgil Goode supported Douglas Wilder who supported stringent gun control. Are you good with that? I’d take a hundred Mormons over a single gun-grabber. Apparently you have no concern for either of the first two amendments; how do you feel about the rest?

[Colofornian]

For President, the time for selecting the ideal candidates was the primary. We didn't, mainly because no real candidate was perfect enough to satisfy the SoCons. Romney is what we have. We'll try harder next time.

At best, this argument ONLY applies to the genuine swing states.

If 100% of FREEPERs voted for Virgil Goode in over 40 states, it would have absolutely 0 effect on the electoral outcome of this election. Romney would still take the red states; Obama would still take the blue states.

What's "funny" is that so many FREEPERs wax utilitarian with their "anybody but Obama" rhetoric, but won't apply the same political philosophy to the genuine clear blue and clear red states.

[Colofornian]

Well, let's see...how long have you had this penchant for judging the inward motives of others?

First, 'twas Tricia Erickson; now me.

Nobody has ever paid me a dime for ANYTHING I've ever posted on FR.

Your outward acts of inwardly judging complete strangers is a despicable habit that I suggest you put to bed; God sees what you are doing -- and He knows my motivations.

Do you claim before the omnipresent eyes of God -- and His omniscience -- that it's a good example to set for others that it's "OK" to inwardly judge complete strangers?

If you don't like the truth-casting of this thread, just avoid it.

[Colofornian]

Then why has he allowed the Church of Latter-Day Saints to survive and thrive?

#1...we ALL have personally earned God's wrath. So why has He allowed anyone to "survive and thrive" despite our sin?

His Love. His compassion. His mercy. His patience. (You do know, doncha, that some Lds become Christians.)

I'm a Catholic, and I'm pretty confident your sources also have a long, wordy discourse on why I'm going to Hell because of my faith.

(If you're married, has your spouse caught you jumping into assumptions?...'cause you just gave us such a whopper of an example)

When it comes to rendering judgement on the faith of others, I just remember that Christ told me to take the plank out of my own eye before I start to worry about the specks in the eyes of others. Maybe you should try that.

OK, in your post, you've accused me of having some "long, wordy discourse on why" you're "going to Hell because of my faith." Let me ask you something, then, in light of your "plank-eye" comment: "Did your remove any splinters...or "planks" "out" of your own eye prior to making that accusation?...Or are your eyes so pure that you can just go 'round carte-blanche and make such accusations of complete strangers?

And -- then -- are you not "rendering judgment" of my very own religious expressions I've mentioned on this thread?

If Mitt Romney's beliefs are apparently not "fair game" for critique (per what we can take from your comments), then why are my religious expressions "fair game" for your critiques? (Are you not being inconsistent by the very standards you profess here?)

And since you have critiqued my religious expressions, did you happen to remove any splinters -- or perhaps "planks" -- from your eyes prior to making such judgments of me?

In fact, since, in Christ's example, He talked of both splinters as well as planks/beams, why did you automatically leap into accusing me of having "planks" in my eyes?

[Elsie]

Choose ye this day.

[svcw]

The woman is the daughter of a mormon bishop, she became a Christian.
She is just expressing her angst over Romney being president, she said she does not like obama.
Like it or not there are many people who feel the same way, does that mean Romney will lose no, it just means there are many people who know and understand mormonism and are concerned about a mormon president.

[Colofornian]

Who would make a better neighbor, Mormon or muslim? I’ll pick the Mormon anytime.

(And here all along I thought we were voting for THE Leader of the free world...and you've properly "corrected" us that it's really "Neighbor of the year" award...Well, by your suggested standard, Mormon Harry Reid wins both "neighbor of the year" award and would be the next super Dem candidate for POTUS!)

[Elsie]

“So in other words, it’s better to have another 4 years of Obama?”

It beats:

“So in other words, it’s better to have an ETERNITY of MORMONism!”

[svcw]

Graham did not endorse Romney, all he did was remove the reference to cults which included mormonism from his web page.

[Elsie]

A vote in an election means their soul...

Maybe.

"You knew what I was when you picked me up."

[Elsie]

This isn’t a theological debate, its a political debate.

This country has no political problems. Just a Spiritual one.

[Colofornian]

I’ll take a Godly man...

You somehow miss out with your adjective here: Which god?

Do you mean the Mormon god who was a man and got the "god-job" of this planet when a "council of gods" selected him? So this is the "god" you feel "safe and secure" with a Mormon POTUS praying to in some crisis situation?

[Elsie]

If they claimed, like temple Mormon Mitt Romney believes, that they were a "god in embryo" -- that would have hardly been irrelevant to news articles, opinion columns, online forums, etc.

And HERE is the 'scripture' that ALL true MORMONs believe:

The Doctrine and Covenants

 

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 

---

 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in ^amarriage; but are appointed angels in ^bheaven, which angels are ministering ^cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are ^aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that ^acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man ^amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and ^beverlasting covenant, and it is ^csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of ^dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ^ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit ^fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s ^gBook of Life, that he shall commit no ^hmurder whereby to shed innocent ⁱblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their ^jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the ^kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from ^aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be ^bgods, because they have ^call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my ^alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For ^astrait is the gate, and narrow the ^bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the ^clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that ^awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is ^aeternal lives—to ^bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath ^csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25^aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the ^bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they ^creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.

[Elsie]

...spread anti-Mormon bigotry ...

Yeah; it sure IS nasty when stuff like that gets SPREAD around!

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[driftdiver]

Gee its almost like you’re paid to post this tripe. oh wait you are.

[Elsie]

Romney is going to cut government and cut spending and that is all that matters in this election.

All that matters; eh?

Oh well; you live up to your screen name.