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To: HarleyD

It never ceases to amaze me how people SAY they believe the bible, but when confronted with plain reading scripture, they reject it.

You don’t need the Reformation, Calvinism, Systematic Theology, or a Doctorate degree from the Seminary to be saved, nor to know the things of God.

The Disciples were NOT “learned” men, for a reason. They had not been “taught” the “right” way to think.

Romans 1:20 says that EVERYTHING you want to know about the Divine Nature of the Godhead, can be seen in the things God has made.

Do you believe Romans 1:20 or not? I do. If you take it on faith, God will speak to you through the General Revelation, and you will be privy to the truths of God’s nature. (This is the why nobody has an excuse for not “knowing” about God, and his nature). This is why people who grew up and NEVER heard the name Jesus can be saved, because God himself will give the faithful what they need to perfect their faith, just as Abraham’s faith was perfected, looking forward to Jesus (no, Abraham did not know that the Messiah’s name would be Jesus, or when/where he was born, but Jesus is the Lord of Salvation for all, OT and NT).

I believe in Sola Scriptura — no additional “points” needed. Nor Priest/Pastors that are Seminary trained are needed. The veil of the temple was rent. Jesus is our Priest, and he ministers to us directly. When we stop listing for the soft, quiet voice of God’s will and busy ourselves we lose contact with our Creator.

Like the Bereans, which were commended for searching the scriptures to see if what was being preached were true, WE the faithful should study and read the scriptures, putting more weight on the word of God than of man.


18 posted on 01/18/2013 4:36:28 PM PST by BereanBrain
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To: BereanBrain
The Disciples were NOT “learned” men, for a reason. They had not been “taught” the “right” way to think.

I would suggest a more careful study of Paul's life. If you want to say "Paul was not a disciple" then perhaps a more careful study of other disciples as well. John was well known in the rabbinical community (it was he who got Peter into the inner court) and his mother was pushing for both James and John's success. Matthew was a tax collector so he must have know how to handle finances. Peter (along with James and John) ran a successful fishing business so much so that he owned a house.

Sorry but I don't buy that these disciples were just county bumpkins and neither do historians. Many of Christ's disciples were educated for their times and moderately successful just like any working stiff today. What they gave up for the cause of Christ was real and tangible.

But I would agree that they were not "taught" the "right" way to think. It is ONLY when God illuminate our eyes that we can see the truth. But God does not do this for everyone.

If you accept Sola Scriptura then there is simply no way of denying the clear teachings of Christ that some things are hidden from some people while God reveals them to others. It simply states this.

Romans 1:20 says that EVERYTHING you want to know about the Divine Nature of the Godhead, can be seen in the things God has made.

Romans 1 also states that although everything you wanted to know about God has been visible BUT even though THEY KNEW GOD THEY DID NOT HONOR HIM AS GOD OR GIVE THANKS TO HIM. So their minds become darkened. That is our nature.

This is why people who grew up and NEVER heard the name Jesus can be saved

This is a first. I suppose next you're going to tell me that good meaning Muslims who never heard about Jesus can be saved?

I believe in Sola Scriptura ...

If so then you need to remember...

And if you truly believe you don't need "professional" men instructing you, then I would suggest you recall Ezra:

Only the word of God is infallible and inerrant. While you may not want to take stock in other people's interpretations, I'd be careful to ensure that your own are not tainted. There have been many, many heretics who believed they were correctly interpreting the truth.

26 posted on 01/18/2013 6:10:30 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: BereanBrain; HarleyD
Romans 1:20 says that EVERYTHING you want to know about the Divine Nature of the Godhead, can be seen in the things God has made.

Absolutely.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

One of "things that are made" are us. In other words, the divine nature can be perceived in us, in our bodies. So what does that reveal about the Godhead?

The biggest thing that jumps out about the human body is duality.

Two halves of a body. Two ears. Two eyes, two nostrils. Two feet. Two hands. Two arms. Two legs. Internally we have right brain and left brain. Two lungs. Two kidneys.

Duality in the body. The same thing occurs in most of animal world. How about sexes? Two sexes, male and female. In nature TWO, or duality, is the overwhelming number seen in creation.

In scripture it's the same. In heavenly realm there is never a "person" in the Godhead named "holy spirit". There is the father and the son:

Dan 7:13 "I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.
Dan 7:14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.

Father and son. Two.

Heb_8:1 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

In the book of Revelation there are many visions of heaven. We can see the father and son sitting on thrones. Surrounding the thrones are a host of angelic beings. But nowhere is there a person referred to or called the "holy spirit" in heaven...in the Godhead.

So if we filter out religion the overwhelming attribute of divinity is two, not three. Our bodies and nature practically scream it. We ARE without excuse.

37 posted on 01/20/2013 4:20:57 AM PST by DouglasKC
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