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To: DouglasKC; BereanBrain
Please review your references and theology. Paul taught the Holy Spirit endwelled believers (my quotes). There would be no need for Paul to say "Grace to you and peace from God our Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit". This would not only be redundant but it contradicts Paul's teachings that the Holy Spirit indwells us and continuously imparts grace in us. The Father and the Son do not indwell us. Believers ALREADY have the Spirit and that Spirit is giving them grace and peace.

There are many quotes by Paul (as well as our Lord) referring to the Holy Spirit as a person:

Paul refers to the Spirit as a person and this person ("who") comes from God the Father. Paul signs off his letter to the Corinthians properly referring to all three:

Paul lists all three but more importantly Paul talks about the "fellowship" of the Holy Spirit. You can't have fellowship with some cosmic goo. That is precisely why Paul does not refer to the Holy Spirit in his greetings-simply because we already are experiencing fellowship with the Spirit and that Spirit is a "He" and a "WHO", not a "THING". You have fellowship with people.

This, btw, is WHY it is important to study the teachings of those who come before us as well as the scriptures; to avoid serious errors like this.

40 posted on 01/21/2013 3:19:18 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; DouglasKC; BereanBrain
Let's let Scripture define ‘Holy Spirit’ shall we? Is it a ‘person’ per-say?

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

John 15:18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. ... 24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. 25 But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause. 26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

John 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority,but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

John 17:14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

The Spirit is ‘Truth’, so what is truth?

Ps 33:4 For the Word of YHVH is right, and all His work is done in truth.

Ps 119:142 Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and Your Torah (Law) is truth.

Ps 119:151 You are near, O YHVH, and all Your commands are truth.

160 The entirety of Your word is truth, and all Your righteous right-rulings are forever.

The Scriptures define the holy Spirit as Truth. It is referred to as an entity, but it is not a separate entity as all Truth belongs to the Father only who then gave it to the Son who in turn gives it to us. This is much like referring to the ‘church’ as a ‘she’ or ‘her’.

there is a Father and there is a Son, both of which have the same ‘Holy Spirit’ that comes from the Father.

John 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and Truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and Truth.”

Truth is not a person, Truth is the substance of the Father that was in the Son and is to be in us. If the substance of the Son is in all, then the Father's Truth will be shown in all, in all they say and do.

42 posted on 01/21/2013 9:13:37 AM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: HarleyD; BereanBrain
The Father and the Son do not indwell us. Believers ALREADY have the Spirit and that Spirit is giving them grace and peace.

Rom_8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom_8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Verse 10 says Christ is in us.

And in verse 11 who raised Jesus from the dead? Whoever it is, Christians have HIS spirit dwelling in us too.

Gal_1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),

The father raised Jesus from the dead. The spirit of the father dwells in us and the spirit of Christ.

In other words, the holy spirit IS the spirit of the father and the son...who ARE God. The holy spirit isn't a separate "person" at all, but it is the spirit of the father and the son.

Also history and any good Catholic will tell you that the notion that the spirit is another person besides the father and son is an "evolved" doctrine and wasn't fully developed until centuries after the death of Christ.

This, btw, is WHY it is important to study the teachings of those who come before us as well as the scriptures; to avoid serious errors like this.

It certainly is wise. But it's equally wise to be able to discern traditional teaching from biblical teaching. They're often at odds.

44 posted on 01/21/2013 6:33:44 PM PST by DouglasKC
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