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To: HarleyD; BereanBrain
The Father and the Son do not indwell us. Believers ALREADY have the Spirit and that Spirit is giving them grace and peace.

Rom_8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom_8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Verse 10 says Christ is in us.

And in verse 11 who raised Jesus from the dead? Whoever it is, Christians have HIS spirit dwelling in us too.

Gal_1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),

The father raised Jesus from the dead. The spirit of the father dwells in us and the spirit of Christ.

In other words, the holy spirit IS the spirit of the father and the son...who ARE God. The holy spirit isn't a separate "person" at all, but it is the spirit of the father and the son.

Also history and any good Catholic will tell you that the notion that the spirit is another person besides the father and son is an "evolved" doctrine and wasn't fully developed until centuries after the death of Christ.

This, btw, is WHY it is important to study the teachings of those who come before us as well as the scriptures; to avoid serious errors like this.

It certainly is wise. But it's equally wise to be able to discern traditional teaching from biblical teaching. They're often at odds.

44 posted on 01/21/2013 6:33:44 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

I think you are confusing the definition of the word “person” when used in reference to the Godhead, as it is different from the “person” used when talking about mankind. Sometimes a single word has multiple meanings (look in any dictionary).

Let me attempt to describe how there is harmony in the scriptures.

When you and I talk about an person, we are really taking about a man/woman. Now how does that person exist? He exists three-fold. That is, he/she exists a a physical being, a soul, and a spirit.

Do you remember God saying to Adam and Eve “in the day you eat thereof, you shall surely die.”? But did Eve die when she ate the apple? Yes. She suffered at that point spiritual death. We lost the ability to naturally commune with God because we are spiritually dead (we are no longer in the image of God, we are missing our spirit).

So mankind was originally designed a Triune creature, in the image of God.

Romans 1:20 says the entire creation testifies to God’s eternal nature and Godhead. So let’s take that verse as the truth that all scripture is, and amplify it.

Space exists in three dimension (X,Y,Z). If you have any less than 3 dimensions, your total volume of the universe would be ZERO. Once you add the third dimension (any will do), the volume of the universe is INFINITE.
Time exists as Past, Present, and Future. Without any of those three, could not exist.
Matter exists in three natural states (liquid, solid, gas), which itself is made up of protons, neutrons, elections.

Now consider that each of these “threes” Space, Time, Matter themselves add up to one thing, our whole universe!

Now to the word person, from the greek persona, which implied an appearence as in a mask an actor might wear on a stage. Not that God is trying to deceive, but that the same God appears to us differently.

Like in our universe, Height looks different than Depth, which looks different from Length — does that mean the universe is trying to trick us?
No, there is a difference, but the SUBSTANCE is the same, and each is infinite.

So when I die, and my body is gone, I still exist, at least my soul does, until I receive my (new) glorfied body, and my new spirit.

For now, I am stuck in this old decaying body, with my eternal soul, with a dead human spirit, but am counseled and indwelled by the Holy Spirit, by who I am made alive again.

Without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, my soul would continue to wither and corrupt itself. But with the Holy Spirit, it will renew my mind (soul).

So this is my defense of a true understanding of the Trinity.

No, I am not a “oneness” person. Oneness believes come from trying to understand God by human reasoning like “how can three things be one thing?”. God create the WHOLE UNIVERSE as three in one. That’s what Romans 1:20 implies.

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.


46 posted on 01/23/2013 8:47:58 PM PST by BereanBrain
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