Mr Webster should stick to Fashion sense only.
Posted on 05/10/2013 7:36:49 PM PDT by boatbums
BUMP for the later time I will take to read.
Here's one from today for example: Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic – Conversion Story of David B. Currie
Finally, explain to us, if you will, how "God opened my eyes". I assume it was God himself and not a man, and not a reading of something or other written by man. Thanks.
I'd be delighted to. I was about sixteen years old and visiting a Southern Baptist Church my grandparents attended. In a Sunday school class, the teacher handed me a Bible and showed me John 10:27-30. It said:
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
Reading the words, "I give to them eternal life and they shall never perish." is what hit me between the eyes and I KNEW I was hearing the truth. I understood what Jesus was saying to ME and I believed and received Him from that day forward. I knew I was going to heaven because of what Jesus did for me and not because I was good enough to deserve it. That is what started my faith journey and I have not once had any desire to go back to the church I was raised in (Roman Catholicism).
Now, this may seem like I am attacking your church, but, in truth, I am speaking to those people out there reading this that just might be in the same place I was, looking for truth.
Here is Augustine unequivocally writing about Peter as the Rock in context.
St. Augustine (410 A.D.): "These miserable wretches, refusing to acknowledge the Rock as Peter and to believe that the Church has received the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, have lost these very keys from their own hands." (Augustine, Christian Combat).
"...Why! a faggot that is cut from the vine retains its shape. But what use is that shape if it is not living from the root? Come, brother, if you wish to be engrafted in the vine. It is grievous when we see you thus lying cut off. Number the bishops from the See of Peter. And, in that order of fathers, see whom succeeded whom. This is the Rock which the proud gates of hades do not conquer. All who rejoice in peace, only judge truly." --St. Augustine, Psalmus Contra Pertem Donati.
Mark for tomorrow
I remember back in the 1990s using Webster’s seriously flawed book The Church of Rome at the Bar of History (or whatever it was called) to help convert Protestants to the Catholic faith. It was fairly easy if they were willing to look at a few overheads. I used to type out his quotes from the Fathers and then photocopy them onto transparencies (ah, the days before LCD projectors). Then I would show them transparencies with the actual full quotes. Anti-Catholics have a nasty habit of hiding an awful lot of text in ellipses!!!
Most Protestants were shocked that a Protestant “historian” (Webster has a B.A. in history if I remember correctly) could be so dishonest.
There doesn’t need to be. The church “the bride of Christ” rules with Christ.
Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
2 Sam. 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."
Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."
“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “
Mr Webster should stick to Fashion sense only.
Tell us about Easter and Christmas again Pope CB, go ahead. And that whole “all churches are corrupt” thing.
John 6 does not use the same word for flesh or body that Jesus used in the Last Supper.
John 6 is NOT talking about the eucharist.
Word for *flesh* in:
John 6:51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56
http://bible.cc/john/6-51.htm
John 6:63
http://biblos.com/john/6-63.htm
The word for *flesh* is the same in BOTH verses.
http://biblesuite.com/greek/4561.htm
sarx: flesh
Short Definition: flesh, body
Definition: flesh, body, human nature, materiality; kindred.
It is the exact same word used in Galatians 5 and Romans 8. There is also much more commentary at this link:http://biblesuite.com/greek/4561.htm
which I would post but would show up in HTML and mess up a simple post.
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However, it is NOT the same word as used in the Last Supper....
Matthew Mark 14:22, Luke 22:19, Matthew 26:26, 1 Corinthians 11:24, 27, 29
soma: a body
Short Definition: body, flesh
Definition: body, flesh; the body of the Church.
There is also a more in depth analysis of the word *soma* at this link: http://biblesuite.com/greek/4983.htm
Lots of today's best Protestants are Catholics. It's sort of like having a Mother who's a bit of a family outcast and living in an overly ornate house in a bad neighborhood and has notions with which you are presently in strong disagreement.
And don't feel so bad about it all. After all, the Catholics had the only game in your town for what, 1500 years? As with any human organization, it went a bit rotten. (v our government) Get over what you have to get over, and remember that even Martin Luther didn't give up praying the Rosary and reading his Roman Breviary.
Seeya in Heaven.
You really need to get out more then.
No, the Torah is not the way to salvation, or even "acceptable christian living" -- indeed, here is what the early church, being led by the Holy Spirit, sent to the new gentile converts:
Acts 15:1-35
15 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question. 3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the brothers.[a] 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. 5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
12 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
16“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, 17 that the remnant[b] of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.’
19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, 23 with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers[c] who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you[d] with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
30 So when they were sent off, they went down to Antioch, and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter. 31 And when they had read it, they rejoiced because of its encouragement. 32 And Judas and Silas, who were themselves prophets, encouraged and strengthened the brothers with many words. 33 And after they had spent some time, they were sent off in peace by the brothers to those who had sent them.[e] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.
So then, if the Holy Spirit laid no such burden as the Mosaic law (Torah) on Gentiles why do you? And by what authority?
C. B. - At least your in scripture even if I think your wrong on your balance of verses from the text of scripture. But Mr. Webster loves to make the Early Church Fathers into something they never declared when you read them in context. The whole idea of this guy is quoting the early fathers texts as evidence too. I had a computer with a Faith Data Base concordance of early church Fathers. I used it when I first encountered this man’s writings. He is so wrong it is pathetic. I also asked the same people who liked to post this man’s so called work if they ever read the original material that he purports to get it - from the so called source. Not one at the time ever admitting to reading the original outside Webster’s words. Very sad.
So your liberal side is showing, in that you disagree with other RCs that the authority of pope is supreme, and he needs not the ratification of councils for his ex cathedra statements to be infallible, but they need his, and he cannot be deposed by them?
And you believe all Fathers' interpreted Mt 16 as the rock referring to Peter?
Be back you in the AM God willing.
Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem;
Creatorem caeli et terrae.
Et in Jesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum;
qui conceptus est
de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria virgine;
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus;
descendit ad inferos;
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis;
ascendit ad caelos;
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis;
inde venturus est
iudicare vivos et mortuos.
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum;
sanctam ecclesiam catholicam;
sanctorum communionem;
remissionem peccatorum;
carnis resurrectionem;
vitam aeternam. Amen.
In English:
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary,
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
he will come again
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen
So one cannot have eternal life unless he/she believes in the Eucharist and literally consumes Jesus body and blood physically?
That would be consistent with your unequivocal understanding of the verse, but want to make sure.
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