Is This Good News? (RC Claim all can be saved without Jesus)

White Horse Inn Blog ^ | 24 May 2013 | Michael Horton

[Gamecock]

In his Wednesday Mass homily this week, Pope Francis attracted considerable media attention. According to reports, the message drew on Mark 9:40, where Jesus says, “He who is not against us is for us.” Like the disciples, we can be intolerant of the good that others can do—even atheists. Because we’re all created in God’s image, there is still a possibility of doing good. So far, nothing particularly controversial in terms of classical Christian teaching. The most ardent evangelical would affirm that although our works are so corrupted by sin that they cannot justify us before God, they can help our neighbors.

However, the pontiff added, “The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!…We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Reports from major outlets, including the Huffington Post, express astonishment at the pope’s comments. What is this strange new teaching? Of course, it’s not new at all. It has been an emphasis ever since the Second Vatican Council, where the previously shunned speculations of Karl Rahner, S. J., became official teaching. There is no way to reconcile the previous councils and papal pronouncements depriving non-Roman Catholics of salvation with the idea of the “anonymous Christian.” Nevertheless, there it is. Not the development of dogma, as Cardinal Newman formulated, but the flat contradiction of dogma.

Before Vatican II, the standard teaching was that ordinarily no one can be saved who does not submit to the magisterium and papal authority in particular. Especially in trouble were those who had been reared Roman Catholic and yet explicitly rejected the pope’s headship. Although they were consigned to everlasting punishment by papal decrees, the Protestant Reformers never applied the same rule to their Roman Catholic opponents. Calvin even said that although Rome has excommunicated itself according to the criterion of Galatians 1:8-9, “There is a true church among her.”

What has changed? We keep hearing from Protestants that, given the Vatican II reforms, if Luther and Calvin were alive today they’d renew their Roman Catholic membership cards. I doubt it. Not even the craziness of contemporary Protestantism could push them to make that move against a Scripture-bound conscience.

What has changed is that Rome has carried its incipient Semi-Pelagianism to its logical conclusion. I know, Karl Rahner and Vatican II repeatedly condemn Pelagianism and extol grace as the fundamental basis for salvation. Yet that has always been Rome’s teaching. It is by grace alone that we are empowered to cooperate in meriting further grace and, one hopes, final justification.

The Reformers never accused the medieval church of embracing outright Pelagianism, but of that subtler form of works-righteousness that invokes grace as no more than assistance for our attainment of God’s favor. Maybe Protestants don’t get that because this is essentially the same tendency at work in many mainline and evangelical churches.

There is a certain truth, then, to the idea of development, at least from the sixteenth-century Council of Trent and the twentieth-century Second Vatican Council. Various seeds have come to full flower: •Collapsing special revelation into general revelation, and therefore the gospel into the law, Rome maintains that Scripture provides a higher revelation—greater illumination. The gospel is simply “the new law”—easier than the old covenant—with Christ as a “new Moses.” •Collapsing our works into Christ’s, the familiar slogan of the medieval church was “God will not deny his grace to those who do what lies within them.” It is this slogan that is official dogma, according to Vatican II and the current Catechism of the Catholic Church. •The Council of Trent anathematized the view that we are so thoroughly bound by sin that we cannot cooperate with God’s grace by our own free will. The new dogma simply extends this logic to conclude that everyone is “in Christ,” infused with saving grace, and capable of attaining final justification by grace-empowered works. •The medieval dogma of implicit faith was a way of demanding absolute obedience to everything taught by the pope and magisterium, which Calvin described as “ignorance disguised as humility.” Now, implicit faith is invoked to support the idea that even atheists evidence an openness to divinity by their good works. They may not have explicit faith in Christ—or even in any transcendent Creator, but it lies buried in their sub-consciousness nevertheless.

What’s different is this: where the older view denied that faith was sufficient for justification, the new view denies that faith—at least the explicit faith in Christ everywhere assumed in Scripture—is even necessary. In other words, good works not only now supplement faith in justifying sinners but replace faith entirely.

It’s no wonder that the media is welcoming this Wednesday homily with such glee. Aside from some major social problems, the world, after all, is not as in need of being rescued as we thought. We just need a little direction to get back on the road, some encouragement to be more tolerant and attentive to the plight of others. Somehow Jesus Christ has made it possible for all of us to wind up in heaven (purgatory, etc., left to the fine print).

But is this a gospel—good news? Perhaps it is to good people who could be a little better, but not to the ungodly who need to be justified before a holy God. What’s so amazing is that the pope’s message is treated as kinder and freer, even though it replaces faith in Christ with our own acts of charity. For anyone who knows what God counts as true love—and therefore good works, this can only provoke deeper guilt and fear.

Although the surprise expressed by the Huffington Post report cited above reveals unfamiliarity with official teaching, it does get one important thing right in its conclusion: “Of course, not all Christians believe that those who don’t believe will be redeemed, and the Pope’s words may spark memories of the deep divisions from the Protestant reformation over the belief in redemption through grace versus redemption through works.” Anyone who thinks that the Reformation is over doesn’t realize just how much further from the gospel Rome has moved in recent decades.

[The_Reader_David]

Odd, I thought that had been settled at the Fifth Ecumenical Council with the condemnation of Pelagius (on salvation through good works) and of Origen (on the apocatastasis). (Last I checked the Latins do regard the Fifth Ecumenical Council as authoritative, their heresy of papal infallibility notwithstanding.)

Christians are allowed to pray for the apocatastasis (or as some more modern folks have put it “to pray for an empty Hell”), but not to teach that it is or will be so.

[Truth2012]

Once again, the Pope shows he has not read the Bible. How sad. He is robbing people of great joy with his false teachings.

[fwdude]

So, when is he going to change his position on homosexuality. I’d say any day now.

[Miles the Slasher]

I think the writer is reading too much out of what Pope Frances said. It is true to say in Christian orthodoxy that all men and women have been redeemed. So, it is also true to say the atheist has been redeemed.

The pope is not saying that the atheist, as atheist, will be saved or not. Instead, the pope went on to talk about doing good, and meeting the atheist on that common ground.

I don’t see what is so bad about that...he is talking about common ground in this world - doing good. Sharing common ground is an excellent ‘place’ and occasion from which to evangelize and share the fullness of the Gospel with all - including the atheist.

[newheart]

So it appears that we have, on the one hand, a secularized press that really, really, really wants to find in Francis a liberal who will affirm their “everything is beautiful,” non-theology. They pray (though I am not sure to whom) that the Pope will say that all you have to do is become a Democrat, vote for Obama and be nice to poor people, Muslims and gays and you will get into heaven. You don’t even have to believe in God.

Well, sorry folks, the Pope did not say that. Any of it.

On the other hand we have members of the Church who, perhaps more married to their own brand of doctrinal purity than to Christ, are willing to misrepresent what the Pope says in order to get in another punch at the evil romanists.

The Pope did not say, as Horton claims, and the edited blog title seeks to enhance, that all can be saved without Jesus. He did not say that good works are sufficient for salvation. Of course if all one reads is the Huffington Post response to the Pope’s statement, perhaps it is understandable that the truth of Francis’ statement would be missed.

Horton linked to HuffPo. For those of you who wish to make up your own mind, here is the full text of the Pope’s homily:
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/22/pope_at_mass:_culture_of_encounter_is_the_foundation_of_peace/en1-694445

For the record I am not Catholic.

[chuckles]

You woulda thunk someone would have asked him if he were saved before making him pope.The sacrifce of Jesus was sufficient for ALL sin by ALL sinners, but your FAITH saves you. It's a gift, if you don't accept it, you don't get it. If you choose to go to God on your own righteousness, then you are judged on your own righteousness. A Christian is judged on the righteousness of Jesus.

This is Christianity 101 fundamentalism. I've always been leery of preachers of works salvation. The thief on the cross was promised paradise that day, even though he expressed his belief nailed to the cross. He wasn't required to tithe, give to the poor, or help an old lady cross the street. As a saved person, you are thought to obey Christ and do good works, but that isn't what saves you. If good works saved you, the guy in England with a meat cleaver in his hand could go to heaven if he was kind and did good things more than bad things.

I have been looking at the new pope and fearing something like this. A Jesuit is more of a political position than that of a faith position. They ALWAYS side with commie dictators thinking Jesus was a commie. If you give to the poor,....you are saved and follow Christ. That is why someone like Chavez can get support from the Church while shooting people against a wall. They preach death to poor people and the poor follow error thinking they follow correct teaching.

[pollywog]

Salvation is provided for EVERYONE... John 3:16. For God so loved the world that WHOSOEVER believeth on Him, should not perish but have everlasting life."

This means the vilest of sinners, whosoever!!!

BUT!!!!!!!!! the key word is believeth! ... to those who do NOT believe, and accept Jesus' blood on calvary as payment for their sins, the answer is NO!! NO!! NO!!

...and the words " depart from me, I never knew you." will be heard on that fateful day of Judgement!

God's Word is clear, no amount of " good works" by any athiest will gain him or her entrance into heaven..period. Pope's statement or not!

[newheart]

“Once again, the Pope shows he has not read the Bible. “

With all due respect, I believe that you have shown that you have not read his statement, which can be found here:

http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/22/pope_at_mass:_culture_of_encounter_is_the_foundation_of_peace/en1-694445

[hope_dies_last]

More Wine of Babylon for the masses...

[Salvation]

Did you read the Pope’s real words?

This article is not accurate at all — just portrays the journalist’s view.

[Truth2012]

I’m sorry. Those statement do not reflect the teachings of Jesus, in the Bible.

It may make for a nice society. Sure. The Lord does offer everyone, who will hear, a chance to be redeemed, yes.

Everyone is welcomed to follow, that is true.

However..

All people have to decide to follow human teachers, or to follow the word.

This is a perfect example. This man is not taking his lead from the word, but from the world.

We are not to be conformed to the world.

[2001convSVT]

Thank you MNDude for clarifying this, good post.

[pollywog]

No I didn't read the article. I was going on comments here on the thread.
I guess his statements were misconstrued by others? I will read what he actually said.
My first impression with Pope Francis was that he was going to be conservative so was taken back by this.
Truth remains that salvation is through grace by faith in Jesus' blood, not of works.

Did you read the Pope’s real words?

[GonzoGOP]

Misleading headline. His statement was more along the line that Jesus has already died to save us. There is a big difference between you don't need to be saved, and you already have been saved.

[impimp]

One of the many scriptural references the Catholic Church can rely on when it teaches the theological concept of “invincible ignorance” -

John 9:41 Jesus said to them: If you were blind, you should not have sin: but now you say: We see. Your sin remaineth.

One of the precepts of invincible ignorance is that God reveals himself through natural law and other means even to those who have not been exposed to the Gospel. The Catholic Church holds that it is possible for these people to achieve a Heavenly reward if they respond properly to what God has revealed to them.

[Salvation]

The actual homily by Pope Francis does not even mention atheists!

Pope Francis: Suffering difficulties with patience and overcoming oppression with love

2013-05-24 1


Pope Francis: Suffering difficulties with patience and overcoming oppression with love

(Vatican Radio) “To suffer with patience and to overcome external and internal oppression with love.” That was the prayer of Pope Francis today at the Domus Sanctae Martae during Mass on the feast of Mary Help of Christians.

In his homily, Pope Francis requested two graces: “To endure with patience and to overcome with love.” These are “graces proper to a Christian.” “To suffer with patience,” he notes, “is not easy.” “It is not easy, whether the difficulties come from without, or are problems within the heart, the soul, internal problems.” But to suffer, he explained, is not simply to “bear with a difficulty.”:

“To suffer is to take the difficulty and to carry it with strength, so that the difficulty does not drag us down. To carry it with strength: this is a Christian virtue. Saint Paul says several times: Suffer [endure]. This means do not let ourselves be overcome by difficulties. This means that the Christian has the strength not to give up, to carry difficulties with strength. Carry them, but carry them with strength. It is not easy, because discouragement comes, and one has the urge to give up and say, ‘Well, come on, we’ll do what we can but no more.’ But no, it is a grace to suffer. In difficulties, we must ask for [this grace], in difficulty.”

The other grace the Pope asks for is “to overcome with love”:

“There are many ways to win, but the grace that we request today is the grace of victory with love, through love. And this is not easy. When we have external enemies that make us suffer so much: it is not easy, to win with love. There is the desire to take revenge, to turn another against him ... Love: the meekness that Jesus taught us. And that is the victory! The Apostle John tells us in the first Reading: ‘This is our victory, our faith.’ Our faith is precisely this: believing in Jesus who taught us love and taught us to love everyone. And the proof that we are in love is when we pray for our enemies.”

To pray for enemies, for those who make us suffer, the Pope continued, “is not easy.” But we are “defeated Christians” if we do not forgive enemies, and if we do not pray for them. And “we find so many sad, discouraged Christians,” he exclaimed, because “they did not have this grace of enduring with patience and overcoming with love”:

“Therefore, we ask Our Lady to give us the grace to endure with patience and overcome with love. How many people – so many old men and women - have taken this path! And it is beautiful to see them: they have that beautiful countenance, that serene happiness. They do not say much, but have a patient heart, a heart filled with love. They know what forgiveness of enemies is, they know what it is to pray for enemies. So many Christians are like that!”

The Mass was attended by employees of the Pontifical Council for Social Communications led by the president of the dicastery, Archbishop Claudio Maria Celli. And, on the Day of Prayer for the Church in China, Archbishop Savio Hon Tai-Fai, Secretary of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, and a group of priests, religious, seminarians and lay people from China also attended the ceremony. At the end of the prayers of the faithful, the Pope prayed: “For the noble Chinese people: May the Lord bless them and Our Lady keep them.” The Mass concluded with a hymn to the Virgin Mary in Chinese.

[newheart]

It may make for a nice society. Sure. The Lord does offer everyone, who will hear, a chance to be redeemed, yes.

Seriously? I seem to recall Jesus, in Luke 6:27, telling us to "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you."

The Pope is not talking about making "a nice society." He is talking about the way we should show respect, love and grace for others, even for the unbeliever. In that grace-filled encounter is found the opportunity to genuinely share the Gospel.

[ForAmerica]

According to Eph. 1:4 and 2:8 & 9, I was not available to answer the call nor can I do enough to warrant my salvation! It is a gift, nothing I did earned that gift of God before the foundation of the world. I was not there to ask Him to choose me, only the choice of a sovereign God!

[mgist]

I wonder what is more offensive to God, an honest athiests, or calumnious "christians"?

God's problem with calumny isn't only in the 9th commandment, it is throughout the bible starting in Exodus. 23 “Do not spread false reports. Do not help a guilty person by being a malicious witness."

[ForAmerica]

So now one of the largest Christian religions on earth is in the business of denying Christ?

That's the problem, it's a religion and not a relationship. People have sacrificed their own children, built statues, build pyramids, and etc all in the name of religion!