Posted on 05/26/2013 3:54:31 AM PDT by NYer
The manuscripts that originated in the area where Apostles taught says that:
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
We didn't get salvation from the Jews...Salvation was of the Jews...For the Jews...And we know this because:
Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Rom 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Clearly, salvation was of (for) the Jews, only, initially...
Isa 46:13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
Clearly, salvation was of (for) the Jews, only, initially...
Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
When He says "salvation is from the Jews," he means that the Jews, as cooperators in God's plan, had a role to play to bring people to the point of receiving the Good News of the Gospel.
Nope...As you can see from the previous verse, the Jews did NOT co-operate (except for a few)...Paul was instructed to bring the news of salvation to the Gentiles because the Jews refused to co-operate...So salvation was NOT from the Jews...
In the same way, I might ask you, or my mother, or anyone, to pray that I might have grace and salvation: again, God only is the source, but the Jews, and Paul and Barnabas, and you and I, help each other spiritually in this way.
True, but you certainly wouldn't ask your Mother to find your lost car keys for you...And she is just as much a Saint as any other Saint in heaven...
"When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand."
1Ki 2:19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.
When one changes the scripture, one can make it say anything he/she wants...
Good catch! I saw the verse and immediately looked it up myself without reading her posting. Didn’t notice that little change at all.
You consistently ignore the difference between latria (divine worship) and dulia (honor given to a human person); nor do you care to make any distinction between poetry (e.g. litanies and Christmas carols) and expository doctrinal prose; nor do you ever call Mary Blessed,as she prophesied, nor give honor to her as Jesus' mother, who heard the Word of God and kept it.
Not being very acquainted with actual Catholic prayer life, these fundamental distinctions would, understandably, escape you.
More's the pity. You are OD'ing on polemic, and missing the poetry.
A certain lack of celebratory beauty impoverishes a person's perspective. It is unfortunate, but I suppose there are people who live their whole lives without enjoying the honor we show one another in Christ.
Carols are, in fact, splendid, outstanding examples of this sort of thing. (If I had a couple extra hours, I could supply you with hundreds of examples.) We address angels and archangels, we praise Jesus' lovely Mother, we thank God for our salvation, we worship Christ our Lord. People jonesing on polemics probably wouldn't enjoy all that, either.
Nevertheless, it is always welcome to have the opportunity to explain Catholic belief and practice. You may not listen, but lurkers and listeners do: to them my efforts are dedicated, and to God.
“The Litany of Loreto is not a Liturgical prayer. It not part of the Mass or the Liturgy of the Hours or of any Sacrament. It is private devotional poetry.”
Okay, here’s a video of the private devotional poetry being sung in a Catholic church:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIzF6F5tjRo
“You consistently ignore the difference between latria (divine worship) and dulia (honor given to a human person); “
Well of course I do. It’s a concept alien to the scripture, which therefore makes it alien to me. God Himself regards the righteousness of man as a filthy rag.
Isa_64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
There is no one who is good, no one who is holy, no one who has not fallen short.
Rom 3:9-19 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. (12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (13) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: (14) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: (15) Their feet are swift to shed blood: (16) Destruction and misery are in their ways: (17) And the way of peace have they not known: (18) There is no fear of God before their eyes. (19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
It is God, alone, who should be regarded as good:
Mar_10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
So who do you want me to have devotion for? The dung heap that is man? I’ll save my devotion for God, and no other.
Mary is not Bles'sed as tho any hyperdulia should be attributed to her...She is blessed, praised, esteemed fortunate because she found favor with God...Just as we all are blessed...And she is more blessed than all of us since she was chosen as the mother of Jesus...
I don't see in the scriptures that I should honor the mother of Jesus any more than I honor my own mother other than to recognize that she was very fortunate that God chose her...And I honor my mother...
I think you're substantially right in what you just said, with (permit me) a little suggested tweaking, which I will explain:
"Mary is not Bles'sed as tho anyhyperdulialatria should be attributed to her...She is blessed, praised, esteemed fortunate because she found favor with God...Just as we all are blessed...And she is more blessed than all of us since she was chosen as the mother of Jesus...[This is precisely what "hyperdulia" means!]I don't see in the scriptures that I should honor the mother of Jesus any more than I honor my own mother other than to recognize that she was very fortunate that God chose her...And I honor my mother...
There ya go, Iscool, Amen, Amen, Amen.
Now it's my bedtime. 'Night now, and God bless you.
Tell me exactly how a having an image as a reminder of someone in your yard (or anywhere else) equates to worship. By that measure, the Lincoln Memorial and Mt. Rushmore are objects of worship.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
“Tell me exactly how a having an image as a reminder of someone in your yard”
So, I take it you have a statue of your dead grandfather where you offer prayer and incense on a daily basis? The Asians do that. It’s called ancestor worship.
So tell me: when do you see your neighbors with little shrines for the Blessed Virgin Mary in their yards offer prayer and incense to it on a daily basis?
“So tell me: when do you see your neighbors with little shrines for the Blessed Virgin Mary in their yards offer prayer and incense to it on a daily basis?”
I’m in South Texas and come from a Catholic family. So, the answer is, quite frequently.
LOL!! That's your proof?? I'm Hispanic and a Catholic for 55 years living in California, Arizona and the Catholic US territory of Guam and I have never, ever EVER seen a Catholic stand out in their yard, burn incense and worship a Marian shrine! It must be a Texas thing. LOL!
“LOL!! That’s your proof?? I’m Hispanic and a Catholic for 55 years living in California, Arizona and the Catholic US territory of Guam and I have never, ever EVER seen a Catholic stand out in their yard, burn incense and worship a Marian shrine! It must be a Texas thing. LOL!”
Here are some Catholics in the Philippines singing to the image of their goddess about how majestic she is, how she is their stronghold, etc, with various images of the idol up close and with it marched around.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROmrvtuBwjY&list=PL3D10436533CC97DB
Here is your Pope on his knees before the altar of Mary (scroll down):
http://margefenelon.com/2283/getting-to-know-pope-francis/
And, finally, here are a bunch of Catholic “Saints” and some Popes expressing that salvation is through Mary.
“Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ. Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother.” (Vatican Website: Encyclical of Pope Leo 13th on the Rosary, Octobri Mense, Pope Leo 13th, 1903-1914)
Rest From CatholicTradition.org http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/mary18a.htm :
Open to us, O Mary, the gate of Paradise, since you have its keys!
St. Ambrose
God has entrusted the keys and treasures of Heaven to Mary.
St. Thomas Aquinas
No one can enter into Heaven except through Mary, as entering through a gate.
St. Bonaventure
Mary is called “The Gate of Heaven” because no one can enter Heaven but through her means.
St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori
Holy Scripture was written for Mary, about Mary, and on account of Mary.
St. Bernard
Who is this Gate if not Mary? Mary is the Gate through which Christ entered this world!
St. Ambrose
We had closed Paradise; you, O Mary, opened the entryway to the tree of life again . . . You are the bridge to life, the staircase to Heaven!
St. John Damascene
She is the stairway to Heaven, and the gate of Paradise!
St. Lawrence Justinian
All the Saints have a great devotion to Our Lady: no grace comes from Heaven without passing through her hands. We cannot go into a house without speaking to the doorkeeper. Well, the Holy Virgin is the doorkeeper of Heaven.
St. John Mary Vianney
All gifts, virtues, and graces of the Holy Ghost are administered by the hands of Mary to whomsoever she desires, when she desires, and in the manner she desires, and to whatever degree she desires.
St. Bernardine of Siena
She opens the abyss of God’s mercy to whomsoever she wills, when she wills, and as she wills, so that there is no sinner however great who is lost if Mary protects him . . . All men: past, present, and to come, should look upon Mary as the means and negotiator of the salvation of all ages.
St. Bernard
If our life were not under the protection of Mary, we might tremble for our perseverance and salvation . . . In her hands Jesus has placed His almighty power in the order of salvation. He has confided to her all the means of salvation. All the graces of salvation, both natural and spiritual, will be given to us by Mary. She is rich with the riches of God Himself.
St. Peter Julian Eymard
O Mary, we poor sinners know no other refuge but thee, for thou art our only hope, and on thee do we rely for our salvation.
St. Thomas of Villanova
Unless the prayers of Mary interposed, there could be no hope of mercy.
St. Bridget of Sweden
Mary is the whole hope of our salvation.
St. Thomas Aquinas
The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: that we obtain everything through Mary.
Ven. Pope Pius IX
O, my Lady, next to thy Son Jesus Christ, thou hast always been the chief instrument of our salvation.
St. Dominic
We are debtors to the Blessed Virgin, after Christ, for the redemption of the human race.
St. Peter Damian
Sinners receive pardon by the intercession of Mary alone.
St. John Chrysostom
Only at the intercession of Mary do sinners obtain forgiveness . . . They receive pardon only by the intercession of Mary.
St. Peter Chrysologus
There is no one in the world who, if he asks for it, does not partake of the Divine mercy through the tenderness of Mary.
St. Agnes
FYI, I also am Hispanic, which is why I’m quite aware of the idolatry in the Hispanic community.
And just to rub salt in the wound, here are some photos of a lady kneeling and praying before a shrine of Mary in what looks like her back yard (but I could be mistaken).
http://www.examiner.com/slideshow/our-lady-of-guadalupe#slide=50675161
She wasn’t burning incense though. So here’s one where incense is being burned.
http://mexicocooks.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c571453ef01053658dad3970c-320wi
So, to go back to your original point, I don’t think you pray before your dead Great grand daddy in your back yard, offer him incense, hoist him on your back and carry him around, or sing to him about how he is your fortress and security.
The first operational rule of the anti-Catholic is to never let the truth get in the way of a good smear.
The true measure of a Christian will be their testimony regarding the object of their love, Jesus and all that accompanies Him. The false, the self-serving, the covetous and the evil will tell you what they hate.
Peace be with you
LOL
Scripture identifies three people full of Grace; Mary (Luke Chapt 1), Jesus (John Chapt 1) and Stephen (Acts Chapt 6). Do you have a problem with Scripture?
Peace be with you
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