Posted on 05/26/2013 3:54:31 AM PDT by NYer
“Spirits are not “made” of material at all. The notion that all creation must have material attributes and the consequential limitations is the heresy of materialism.”
But this is exactly the nonsense you have been proposing, in telling me that the example of Gabriel, “one angel,” cannot be “extrapolated to every other spiritual being.” That only works if spiritual beings are somehow made of different stuff, one from another. But if spiritual beings have no material attributes, then all spiritual beings should be capable of being omnipresent, or at least multipresent (for Mary, she has to be present with every Catholic believer in the world). In which case, since Gabriel is not multipresent anywhere, you’re materialist fables simply have no strength of argument at all. FYI, Gabriel, technically, is the only one we can confirm never actually sinned. He’s an angel after all, and not a demon, and not a human either with a sin nature. Your theology on Mary being sinless, on the other hand, simply isn’t found in scripture, and it does not follow that a sinless Mary would be omnipresent, but a sinless Gabriel would not.
“Mary, preserved sinless, is the holiest of all.”
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Mar_10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
I do not downplay the authority of Scripture nor do I over inflate it. Sacred Scripture, together with Sacred Tradition for the Sacred Deposit of Faith. Further, the task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
Whatever worth you give to the bastardized version of Sola Scripture you preach cannot be imposed on knowledgeable Catholics. Where Luther proposed a sufficiency of Scripture, the modern step children of the Reformation insist on an exclusivity of Scripture, not only of their interpretation of Scripture, and on a reduced number of books that fit their theology, but carefully selected verses within those books selected and read with a Protestant eye. Again, forgive me for not taking you seriously.
Peace be with you
“Further, the task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone.”
Okay! So please provide the Roman Catholic “interpretation” and explanation for Daniel 10:12-13’s apparent contradiction of your “spiritual beings are not bound to being in one location!” theology. You can also provide the RCC’s official explanation of how a human creature can share in the omnipresence of God.
I've already explained it at the high school level. I won't simplify it further.
Peace and blessings
“I’ve already explained it at the high school level. I won’t simplify it further.”
You mean your contradictions and sweeping assertions are actually quotes from the official teachings of the RCC on the scripture I mentioned? “Spirits are omnipresent! Except Gabriel!” You should let your other fellow know you speak with the real authority. He’s arguing to me that Mary isn’t present with the believer at all, but receives our prayers via transmission.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
If you care about truth and accuracy please reread post #187. In I said I did not know if spirits are omnipresent, I said some are certainly multipresent.
I think it is about time you substantiated your claim that all angels and spirits are exactly the same, with all of the same properties, abilities and limitations. While you are at it please tell me how long they are, what color they are and how much they all weigh.
How many can dance on the head of a pin?
This is an outstanding post. I don’t know how much more precise, on point, and helpful a reply could be. There is simply nothing else to add at this point, IMO.
**Too many posters do not think, ponder or ruminate before they spout. **
Why are you dissing FReepers?
Where does the Bible reference the Bible and establish the baseline of what is included? Where does it say that the Bible is anything other than what the Catholic Church defined it to be?
Peace be with you
Have you never heard of apparitions?
The remark was made by Natural Law at post 199. And it is allowed on “open” RF threads because it is speaking about a group, not an individual Freeper.
I missed that on the previous page....
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