Posted on 05/31/2013 2:44:05 PM PDT by NYer
Do our Catholic children and most adults know what these images teach?
All of us know one of the elephants in the room of the Catholic Church. Our religious education programs are not handing on the essence of our Catholic Faith, our parents are befuddled about their role in handing on the faith and the materials we use are vapid or if good do not make an impression on young minds. We are afraid of asking for memorization and thus most don't remember anything they've learned about God and Church other than some niceties and feel good emotions.
I teach each class of our grades 1-6 (we don't have 7th or 8th) each Thursday, rotating classes from week to week. For the last two years I have used Baltimore Catechism #1 as my text book. It is wonderful to use with children and it is so simple yet has so much content. If Catholics, all Catholics, simply studied Baltimore Catechism #1, we would have very knowledgeable Catholics.
These past two years I've used Baltimore Catechism #2 with our adult religious program which we call Coffee and Conversation following our 9:30 AM Sunday Mass, which coincides with our CCD program which we call PREP (Parish Religious Education Program).
This #2 book has more content and is for middle school, but upper elementary school children must have been more capable of more serious content back when this book was formulated and used through the mid 1960's because it is a great book to use with adults and not childish at all. We all use this same book as a supplemental book for the RCIA because it is so clear, nobly simple and chocked full of content!
Yes, there are some adjustments that need to be made to some chapters, but not that many, in light of Vatican II and the new emphasis we have on certain aspects of Church that are not present in the Baltimore Catechism. But these are really minor.
What is more important though is that when the Baltimore Catechism was used through the mid 1960's it was basically the only book that was used for children in elementary and junior high school. It was used across the board in the USA thus uniting all Catholics in learning the same content. There was not, in other words, a cottage industry of competing publishing houses selling new books and different content each year.
The same thing has occurred with liturgical music, a cottage industry of big bucks has developed around the sale of new hymnals, missalettes and new music put on the open market for parishes to purchase. It is a money making scheme.
Why do our bishop allow this to happen in both liturgical music and parish catechesis? The business of selling stuff to parishes and making mega bucks off of it is a scandal that has not be addressed.
In the meantime, our liturgies suffer and become fragmented because every parish uses a different resource for liturgical music and the same is true of religious formation, everyone uses something different of differing quality or no quality at all.
Isn't it time to wake up and move forward with tried and true practices that were tossed out in favor of a consumerist's approach to our faith that has weakened our liturgies, our parishes and our individual Catholics?
You need to cut and paste from more credible websites. The citation above does NOT appear in the Catholic Encyclopedia.
IF it mixes at all, it is only a temporary situation. If you and your best buddies decided to be "blood brothers" by cutting yourselves and touching those cut areas to each other to do so, your blood doesn't change, does it? Sure, it might be a good way to get a blood-born infection, but it is not a way to actually BE carrying each other's blood.
The reason this was brought up was in reply to another's assertion that Jesus got his blood from Mary. But human babies have their OWN unique blood separate from both the mother's and father's blood. Besides....isn't there a semi-dogmatic idea Catholics have that says Mary didn't suffer in her childbirth, that her hymen was not broken? If so, then there wouldn't BE even any blood mixing going on between Jesus and Mary.
I didn’t get hollered at, but it WAS noted.
I always heard it was Italian men could only think of women as sluts or Madonnas. Is there no in-between with some guys??? ;o)
Got ALL ("every drop" was the exact term) from Mary. (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3025958/posts?page=1339#1339)
Did you notice that not ONE Catholic has yet to disagree with that statement?
Apparently not......
There are more than a few versions of 'Catholic Encyclopedia' being that is has been published and updated since at least 1909. What is seen today on the web may not mirror precisely the 1987 Edition, although much found in what is accessible in today's online version has been a part of that 'work' for some time.
Do you have a 1987 Edition? If so, study it and tell us which page the quote is not to be found. Oh wait...the page numbers have been given. Not having a precise "edition" of such work accessible to myself, I ask the readership here if any do, and if they would read pages 32 and 33, then get back to us.
The phrase which you object to is cited elsewhere also, but as usual, when encountering challenging information ---what is the knee-jerk reaction but to impugn the integrity of the source(s).
Towards those not so "twitchy", the exact phrase in dispute was cited as from Catholic Encyclopedia in;
with an online version available for review the phrase in question found in publication here with additional information, citation and references here also.
Although you not address that question to myself, I noticed, nor have received reply to my own brief question in regards to "mixing" of blood asking "precisely when?".
The exaggerated "every drop" coming from the idea of Christ's humanity deriving from Mary(?) which has *some* merit, but for reason of medical knowledge needs be constrained to consideration of fetal nourishment systematic, for the egg itself is but potential for production (not to be confused with capital "C" Creation).
The egg, upon fertilization, never directly shares circulatory systems with mother. For those interested http://www.uptodate.com/contents/placental-development-and-physiology tells it better than I myself can, and this graphic (also available in larger size http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HumanEmbryogenesis.svg) possibly helpful;
Medical proofs indicate the two blood circulatory systems being distinctly separate, leaving basis of possibility (not guarantee) of there being some slight mixing of blood, at birth, from infant to mother, with that contingent upon there being some injury to the mother, a breaking of the skin of the mother with possibility for some slight re-absorption of blood, precisely there.
So much for the "passing through like glass" imaginings. Can't have it both ways. Natural childbirth for Christ? What ever on earth or heaven be the matter with that? Theologically speaking --- natural in all ways other than means of conception, is not only the wisest choice, it is the only choice...well, other than "Hark! The Herald angels sing" (to the lowly shepherds) and the Magi seeing the star and visiting, etc.
He was born much as most all are or were, with the significant difference being the conception, not the birth itself.
Otherwise, I take it there can be fetal cells (not of blood) which can remain in a mother for some. This cell transfer uptake coming through the maternal side of the placenta in the same manner fetal waste product be taken up into mothers own NON-blood circulatory connection to placenta --- and if memory serve this being more enduring in regards to cells from male fetus to mother, than female fetus to mother. Though I have no link for news item in popular press conveying such information, something to that effect I do believe surfaced not long ago.
Exactly. I have posted often about the poor scholarship within D12's posts. Continued instances of error should not be a surprise to anyone. In any event, what was reported was NOT found in the Catholic Encyclopedia. Blaming it on others who also don't permit facts to get in the way of a good anti-Catholic smear doesn't cut it.
Peace be with you
Poor scholarship? Prove it. Mere assertion that it be so isn’t worth the inconvenience to the electrons by which the assertion is published.
While the poster has impugned the credibility of my web site, meaning me, yet he has yet to establish this is a warranted characterization of me, though my work abounds with references, while it is he who has a record here of unapologetically making false charges, which can be substantiated but is against forum rules.
As is abundantly manifest, I practice providing attributions, and usually try to obtain the actual source when it comes to religion or historical quotes if i can find them, and here i will try to obtain that version within a couple weeks, and if it is not in there i will apologize for the error of the source listed, unlike a certain accuser has shown.
I’ve read a great many of daniel’s replies and I’ve found he he does his homework and makes very reasonable arguments. Argue with his conclusions if one must but his scholarship isn’t wanting. I just wish I had the patience he does when writing.
They probably don’t dare for fear of being in opposition to the teachings of the RCC.
Yeah, since they believe they’ll go to hell for that.
You'll have to ask the girls.
I think They'd be the ones that control the issue!
Catholics have not spoken in contradiction to my post because it is right. Protestantism denies Mary's role in Salvation only by ignoring that Jesus became human only through Mary's complete cooperation. Jesus received his body and blood exclusively from Mary and Her womb was the Tabernacle for 9 months. No Mary, no Blood. You owe Her much more than you care to admit.
Peace be with you.
It is what is extrapolated from this that is the issue. Yet since all things were created thru Jesus, then every drop of blood in Mary came from God the Father thru the Son, by the Spirit.
"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: " (Hebrews 10:5)
But other created beings want to magnify the clay to be almost equal to the potter, in contrast to, "learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. " (1 Corinthians 4:6)
Note that in Scripture, the only one in Heaven is who is prayed to, contrary to PTDS , or praised and exalted, is the Lord, and believers there are not crowned and reigning with Christ until after His coming, while they go be with the Lord upon death, not to suffer to make them good enough for Heaven. .
"I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. " (Isaiah 42:8)
"He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved. " (Psalms 62:6)
“Pope Pius XII explains in an address on the Queenship of Mary, ‘when the glorious Virgin Mary entered triumphantly into heaven and was elevated above the choirs of angels to the throne of the Most Holy Trinity.’ And then Christ ‘placed a triple crown of glory on her head, presented her to the heavenly court, seated her at his right hand and pronounced her Queen of the Universe.’...Opus Sanctorum Angelorum, Formation Letter, “Mary - ‘Regina Angelorum’”, April, 2000. http://www.opusangelorum.org/Formation/Maryregina.html
When therefore we read in the writings of Saint Bernard, Saint Bernardine, Saint Bonaventure, and others that all in heaven and on earth, even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God was pleased to give her is so great that she seems to have the same power as God. Her prayers and requests are so powerful with him that he accepts them as commands in the sense that he never resists his dear mother’s prayer because it is always humble and conformed to his will.... St. Louis de Montfort, in Treatise on True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin, #27, 246. http://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM
“The foundation of all Our confidence, as you know well, Venerable Brethren, is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. For, God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.” Pope Pius IX, in Ubi Primum (On the Immaculate Conception), Encyclical promulgated on February 2, 1849, #5.
The power thus put into her (Mary’s) hands is all but unlimited. How unerringly right, then, are Christian souls when they turn to Mary for help..- Pope Leo XIII, in Adiutricem (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 5, 1895, #8. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13adiut.htm
Mary's role as its intercessor was spelled out in the 12th century by theologians, such as Eadmer, (c. 1124) and St. Peter Damian, and was popularized in collections of her miracles. Mary placates the judge. According to Eadmer (A.D. 1060–1124), an English monk and student of Anselm, “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus...[who] does not at once, answer anyone who invokes him, but only does so after just judgment. But if the name of his mother Mary is invoked, her merits intercede so that he is answered even if the merits of him who invoked her do not deserve it...”
In the word says Anselm, through her “the elements are renewed, the netherworld is healed, the demons are trodden underfoot, men are saved and angels are restored.” in the margins out, Smithfield decretals, began again, for over a hundred folios, Mary asserts her power over devils-and sometimes also over Jews. Andrew Taylor, “Three medieval manuscripts and their readers,” University of Pennsylvania press; page 173 St. Maximillian Kolbe, 1894 – 14 August 1941 (canonized by Pope John Paul II):
"The third Person of the Blessed Trinity never took flesh; still, our human word 'spouse' is far too weak to express the reality of the relationship between the Immaculata and the Holy Spirit. We can affirm that she is, in a certain sense, the 'incarnation' of the Holy Spirit [not of the same order as that of the hypostatic union]." (133) "The union between the Immaculata and the Holy Spirit is so inexpressible, yet so perfect, that the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse. This is why she is the mediatrix of all graces given by the Holy Spirit. And since every grace is a gift of God the Father through the Son and by the Holy Spirit, it follows that there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose." Manteau-Bonamy, Immaculate Conception, 91; F.X. Durrwell, The Holy Spirit of God (Cincinnati: Servant Books, 2006), 183-185.
Thus is confirmed that law of merciful meditation of which We have spoken, and which St. Bernardine of Siena thus expresses: ‘Every grace granted to man has three degrees in order; for by God it is communicated to Christ, from Christ it passes to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.’”Pope Leo XIII, in Iucunda Semper Expectatione (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 8, 1894, #5. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13ro5.htm I know not whether God has yet pardoned me. I may again lose Him. But thou canst obtain for me all; and from thee I hope for every good, for forgiveness, perseverance, and heaven. — Visit to the Blessed Virgin Mary — http://www.stalphonsusbalt.org/stavisits.htm
It was not only during the Passion that Jesus and Mary suffered for our sins, for all their lives that heartrending vision was before them in every detail, and never for a moment forgotten. — The Reign of Mary, Vol. 40; Issue 48
"We were condemned through the fault of one woman; we are saved through the merits of another woman. Just as Eve was the root of death for everyone, so Mary was the source of life for everyone. (Ten Series of Meditations on the Mystery of the Rosary,” by John Ferraro, Nihil Obstat - John C. Hogan, Diocesan Censor; Imprimatur (1) - Richard Cardinal Cushing Daughters of St.Paul, 1964).
"As Mother of the Word Incarnate, Mary was elevated to a certain equality with the Heavenly Father." - p. 83^
Thus every time we go to Holy Communion, something sweet to recall is that Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament is the Bread of Life produced from Mary with the flour of her Immaculate flesh, kneaded with the admixture of her virginal milk. - http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/virgin-eucharist.htm
Nailing an egg to a tree is indeed difficult.
You probably also believe you owe Judas because if it wasn’t for his betrayal Christ would not have been crucified? Do you also venerate Judas? We could after all go on and on. Throughout the ages God has used millions of people, both good and evil, to accomplish His purpose and plan. Venerating humans is contrary to what scripture teaches as much of what the RCC teaches is.
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