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According to Scripture (Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?)
Catholic Answers ^ | Tim Staples

Posted on 06/22/2013 1:01:24 PM PDT by NYer

"If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!" That belief, commonly known as sola scriptura, was a central component of all I believed as a Protestant. This bedrock Protestant teaching claims that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith and morals for Christians. Diving deeper into its meaning to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism about twenty years ago, I found that there was no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors and no book I could read to get a better understanding of it.

What role does tradition play? How explicit does something have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? Does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How can we determine the canon using sola scriptura? All these questions and more pointed to the central question: Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?

Most Protestants find it in 2 Timothy 3:16-17:

All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

The fact is that this passage (or any other) does not even hint at Scripture being the sole rule of faith. It says that Scripture is inspired and necessary—a rule of faith—but in no way does it teach that Scripture alone is all one needs to determine the truth about faith and morals in the Church. My attempt to defend this bedrock teaching of Protestantism led me to conclude that sola scriptura is unreasonable, unbiblical, and unworkable.

Unreasonable

The Protestant appeal to the sole authority of Scripture to defend sola scriptura is a textbook example of circular reasoning, and it betrays an essential problem with the doctrine itself: It is contrary to reason. One cannot prove the inspiration of Scripture, or any text, from the text itself. The Book of Mormon, the Hindu Vedas, the Qur’an, the writings of Mary Baker Eddy, and other books all claim inspiration, but this does not make them inspired.

Closely related to this is the question of the canon. After all, if the Bible is the sole rule of faith, we first have to know which books are included in the Bible. Many books were believed to be inspired and, therefore, canonical in the early Church. How do we separate the wheat from the chaff? The Protestant must use the principle of sola scriptura to answer the question of the canon. It simply cannot be done.

I recall a conversation with a Protestant friend about this. He said, "The Holy Spirit guided the early Christians and helped them gather the canon of Scripture and declare it to be the inspired word of God, as Jesus said in John 16:13." I thought that that answer was more Catholic than Protestant. John 16:13 does tells us that the Spirit will lead the apostles, and by extension, the Church, into truth. But it has nothing to say about sola scriptura or the nature or number of books in the canon.

The Bible does not and cannot answer questions about its own inspiration or about the canon. Historically, the Church used sacred Tradition outside of Scripture as its criterion for the canon. The early Christians, many of whom disagreed on the issue, needed the Church in council to give an authoritative decree to settle the question. Those are the historical facts.

To put my friend’s argument into perspective, imagine a Catholic making a similar claim to demonstrate that Mary is the Mother of God. "We believe the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth and guided the early Christians to declare this truth." Would the Protestant respond with a hearty amen? No. He would be more likely to say, "Show me where it says in the Bible that Mary is the Mother of God!" The same question, of course, applies to Protestants concerning the canon: "Show me where the canon of Scripture is in the Bible!"

Will the Circle Be Unbroken?

The issues of the inspiration and canon of Scripture are the Achilles heel of any intellectual defense of sola scriptura. So weak are the biblical attempts at an answer that often the Protestant response just turns the argument against the Catholic. "How do you know Scripture is inspired? Your reasoning is just as circular. You say the Church is infallible because the inspired Scripture says so, then you say that Scripture is inspired and infallible because the Church says so!"

Not only is this not an answer, but it also misrepresents the Catholic position. Catholics do not claim the Church is infallible because Scripture says so. The Church is infallible because Jesus said so. The Church was established and functioning as the infallible spokesperson for the Lord decades before the New Testament was written.

It is true that we know Scripture to be inspired and canonical only because the Church has told us so. That is historical fact. Catholics reason to inspiration of Scripture through demonstrating first its historical reliability and the truth about Christ and the Church. Then we can reasonably rely upon the testimony of the Church to tell us the text is inspired. This is not circular reasoning. The New Testament is the most accurate and verifiable historical document in all of ancient history, but one cannot deduce from this that it is inspired.

The testimony of the New Testament is backed up by hundreds of works by early Christian and non-Christian writers. We have the first-century testimonies of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, the Church Fathers—some of whom were contemporaries of the apostles—and highly reliable non-Christian writers such as Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus, and others, all testifying to the veracity of the Christ-event in various ways. It is on the basis of the historical evidence that we can say it is a historical fact that Jesus lived, died and was reported to be resurrected from the dead by over 500 eyewitnesses (1 Cor. 15:6). Many of these eyewitnesses went to their deaths testifying to the truth of the Resurrection of Christ (Luke 1:1-4; John 21:18-19; 24-25; Acts 1:1-11).

The historical record also tells us that Jesus Christ established a Church—not a book—to be the foundation of the Christian faith (Matt. 16:15-18; 18:15-18; cf. Eph. 2:20; 3:10, 20-21; 4:11-15; 1 Tim. 3:15; Heb. 13:7, 17). Christ said of his Church, "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" (Luke 10:16).

The many books that comprise the Bible never tell us that they are inspired, nor do they answer many other essential questions about their canonicity. Who can or cannot be the human authors of the texts? Who wrote them in the first place? But Scripture does tell us—remarkably clearly—that Jesus established a kingdom on earth, the Church, with a hierarchy and the authority to speak for him (Luke 20:29-32; Matt. 10:40; 28:18-20). If we did not have Scripture, we would still have the Church. But without the Church, there would be no New Testament Scripture. It was members of this kingdom, the Church, who wrote Scripture, preserved its many texts, and eventually canonized it. Scripture alone could not do any of this.

The bottom line is that the truth of the Catholic Church is rooted in history. Jesus Christ is a historical person who gave his authority to his Church to teach, govern, and sanctify in his place. His Church gave us the New Testament with the authority of Christ. Reason rejects sola scriptura as a self-refuting principle.

Unbiblical

There are four problems with the defense of sola scriptura using 2 Timothy 3:16. First, it does not speak of the New Testament at all. The two verses preceding 2 Timothy 3:16 say:

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

This passage does not refer to the New Testament. In fact, none of the New Testament books had been written when Timothy was a child. Claiming this verse as authentication for a book that had not been written yet goes far beyond what the text claims.

Second, 2 Timothy 3:16 does not claim Scripture to be the sole rule of faith for Christians. As a Protestant, I was guilty of seeing more than one sola in Scripture that simply did not exist. The Bible teaches justification by faith, and we Catholics believe it, but we do not believe in justification by faith alone, as Protestants do. Among other reasons, the Bible says that we are "justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:24). There is no sola in 2 Timothy 3:16 either. The passage never claims Scripture to be the sole rule of faith.

James 1:4 illustrates the problem:

And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

If we apply the same principle of exegesis to this text that the Protestant does to 2 Timothy 3:16, then we would have to say that all we need is patience (steadfastness) to be perfected. We don’t need faith, hope, charity, the Church, baptism, or anything else.

Of course, any Christian knows this would be absurd. But James’s emphasis on the central importance of patience is even stronger than Paul’s emphasis on Scripture. The key is to see that there is not a sola in either text. Sola patientia would be just as wrong as sola scriptura.

Third, the Bible teaches that oral Tradition is equal to Scripture. It is silent when it comes to sola scriptura, but it is remarkably clear in teaching that oral Tradition is just as much the word of God as Scripture is. In what most scholars believe was the first book written in the New Testament, Paul said:

And we also thank God . . . that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God. (1 Thess. 2:13)

According to Paul, the spoken words of the apostles were the word of God. In fact, when Paul wrote his second letter to the Thessalonians, he urged Christians there to receive the oral and written Traditions as equally authoritative. This would be expected because both are the word of God:

So, then, brethren stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. (2 Thess. 2:15)

Finally, 2 Timothy 3:16 is specifically addressed to members of the hierarchy. It is a pastoral epistle, written to a young bishop Paul had ordained. R. J. Foster points out that the phrase "man of God" refers to ministers, not to the average layperson (A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, Thomas Nelson and Sons, 1149). This title was used in the Old Testament to describe those consecrated to the service of God (Deut. 33:1; 1 Sam. 2:27; 1 Kgs. 12:22). Not only does the text not say Scripture sola, but Paul’s exhortation for Timothy to study the word of God is in the context of an exhortation to "preach the word" as a minister of Christ. To use this text to claim that sola scriptura is being taught to the average layperson is—to borrow a phrase from Paul—going far "beyond what is written" (1 Cor. 4:6).

Unworkable

The silence of Scripture on sola scriptura is deafening. But when it comes to the true authority of Scripture and Tradition and to the teaching and governing authority of the Church, the text is clear:

If your brother sins against you go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. . . . But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you. . . . If he refuses to listen . . . tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Matt. 18:15-17)

According to Scripture, the Church is the final court of appeal for the people of God in matters of faith, morals, and discipline. It is telling that since the Reformation of almost 500 years ago—a Reformation claiming sola scriptura as its formal principle—there are now over 33,000 Protestant denominations. In John 10:16, Jesus prophesied there would be "one flock, one shepherd." Reliance on sola scriptura has not been effective in establishing doctrine or authority.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; itisnt; scripture; solascriptura; tradition
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
On the other hand, Roman Catholic doctrine most of the time cannot be logically deduced from the scripture at all. It stands simply upon the figment of an alleged Roman Catholic authority backed up through assertion instead of any actual evidence. Or it is backed up by myths and legends. They simply say, when they cannot defend their religion, that they have the right to make what they say the truth despite a lack of evidence. Outside of Catholics and deluded Protestants like this guy formerly was, who is going to find that line of argument persuasive?

The ONLY reason why FRoman Catholic Freepers continually post threads like this one (and this specific one has showed up here a number of times) is to assert that their church is superior to any other Christian churches and to place their leaders OVER God's inspired word. We can easily prove some of their dogmas are anti-scriptural and they know it, so the only recourse is to somehow try to prove the Scriptures are not the only source of truth for the Christian faith. That way, they can let go of reason and place their faith in their church - no matter how many ways it contradicts the Bible. Christians trust in Christ, not human leaders, and know that the rule of our faith can be found in the Holy Scriptures.

181 posted on 06/23/2013 1:33:59 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Thanks for that link. I “favorited” it.


182 posted on 06/23/2013 1:37:22 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion; conservativegramma

Very well stated. Thank you for reposting it and to conservativegramma for stating it.


183 posted on 06/23/2013 1:44:58 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: CynicalBear
There is no “requires” in there. Whether they heard it taught by word or read it doesn’t mean it was two different teachings. It simply means that some heard it by word of mouth and others read it from scripture.

Paul "required" Tradition in accepting the testimony of Timothy which was orally transmitted.

No where in there does it indicate that there were two different teachings.

There are no contradictory teachings. If anything, some are more complete than others.

>>The Bible denies that it is sufficient as the complete rule of faith.<< Say what? Chapter and verse please.

Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2).

Once again, you are returning to the circular argument. This oral teaching was accepted by Christians, just as they accepted the written teaching that came to them later. Jesus told his disciples: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). The Church, in the persons of the apostles, was given the authority to teach by Christ; the Church would be his representative. He commissioned them, saying, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19).

And how was this to be done? By preaching, by oral instruction: "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ" (Rom. 10:17). The Church would always be the living teacher. It is a mistake to limit "Christ’s word" to the written word only or to suggest that all his teachings were reduced to writing. The Bible nowhere supports either notion.

184 posted on 06/23/2013 2:08:58 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer

You still haven’t proven that what was taught “by word of mouth” was different than what was taught in scripture. You haven’t shown that the apostles taught something verbally that they didn’t put in writing. Until you do no credibility can be given to what the RCC teaches as “tradition” that isn’t found in scripture. It looks to me like the “tradition” the RCC foists on it’s followers is just the “teaching of man” and most of it originating in paganism.


185 posted on 06/23/2013 2:24:53 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear
You still haven’t proven that what was taught “by word of mouth” was different than what was taught in scripture.

Who ever said it was different? You are truly missing the point here. Sacred or apostolic tradition consists of the teachings that the apostles passed on orally through their preaching. These teachings largely (perhaps entirely) overlap with those contained in Scripture, but the mode of their transmission is different.

They have been handed down and entrusted to the Churchs. It is necessary that Christians believe in and follow this tradition as well as the Bible (Luke 10:16). The truth of the faith has been given primarily to the leaders of the Church (Eph. 3:5), who, with Christ, form the foundation of the Church (Eph. 2:20). The Church has been guided by the Holy Spirit, who protects this teaching from corruption (John 14:25-26, 16:13).

The first Christians "devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching" (Acts 2:42) long before there was a New Testament. From the very beginning, the fullness of Christian teaching was found in the Church as the living embodiment of Christ, not in a book. The teaching Church, with its oral, apostolic tradition, was authoritative. Paul himself gives a quotation from Jesus that was handed down orally to him: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35).

This saying is not recorded in the Gospels and must have been passed on to Paul. Indeed, even the Gospels themselves are oral tradition which has been written down (Luke 1:1–4). What’s more, Paul does not quote Jesus only. He also quotes from early Christian hymns, as in Ephesians 5:14. These and other things have been given to Christians "through the Lord Jesus" (1 Thess. 4:2).

Without the Catholic Church’s teaching authority, we would not know with certainty which purported books of Scripture are authentic. If the Church revealed to us the canon of Scripture, it can also reveal to us the "canon of Tradition" by establishing which traditions have been passed down from the apostles. After all, Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church (Matt. 16:18) and the New Testament itself declares the Church to be "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

186 posted on 06/23/2013 2:35:27 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: imardmd1

Can’t zot the truth! Thanks.


187 posted on 06/23/2013 2:55:47 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: NYer; metmom; boatbums; caww; Iscool; presently no screen name; daniel1212
>> Who ever said it was different?<<

Well, if there is no difference than surely you can show from scripture the source for all of the RCC teachings. I would appreciate the scripture for the assumption of Mary first.

Actually I can’t even believe you had the audacity to post such a statement.

>> Without the Catholic Church’s teaching authority, we would not know with certainty which purported books of Scripture are authentic.<<

Catholics really need to give that meme up. God also used an ass, Judas, Pharaohs, and many others in error or opposition to Him to accomplish His purposes.

188 posted on 06/23/2013 3:00:26 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: NYer

“Without the Catholic Church’s teaching authority, we would not know with certainty which purported books of Scripture are authentic.”

Balaam’s ass brought him places. Balaam directed him.
From the ass’ point of view, he did the whole thing.
From Balaam’s point of view, he was in charge.
The ass didn’t brag.


189 posted on 06/23/2013 4:13:01 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( “The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.” - Tacitus)
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To: NYer

“”canon of Tradition” by establishing which traditions have been passed down from the apostles.”

That really is one of the problems. Much of it isn’t passed down from the apostles.

Many of these “traditions” don’t have any historical evidence during the time of the living apostles. As such, there is no unbroken chain.

Many don’t arise until centuries later. Much is either borrowed from cultic worship - like the use of incense, candles, vestments, etc. (according to the Catholic Encyclopedia) - or made up out of whole cloth.

Once declared as a “tradition”, from then on it is considered part of this canon.

None of those things are essential for saving faith. None of them are essential for making a Christian complete or mature.

Personally, I have no problem if someone wants to splash themselves with holy water - or whatever. Maybe is has some special, extra-Biblical, non-essential meaning to them. If so, great. As long as it does not directly contradict inspired Scripture, obscure the truths God inspired... have at it.


190 posted on 06/23/2013 4:20:05 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( “The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.” - Tacitus)
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To: verga
Funny you forget that in Isaiah Abraham is also called the rock:

What?! What's funny is - your understanding of that Scripture. That is not what that Scripture says. Don't try to teach Christians about GOD'S WORD which is their final authority by what 'man' teaches you. It's like Catholic Comedy here reading what 'man' has taught their subjects. Stick w/your catechism that no one is interested in.

Jesus is The Rock - hear and obey or consider yourself disobedient to God!

191 posted on 06/23/2013 4:21:29 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: count-your-change

My answer is that the answer to your question is found in the teachings of the Catholic Church. Just like some folks refuse to believe that the Bible is inspired by God, some folks refuse to believe that God gave the Catholic Church the authority to teach in matters of faith and morals.

Perhaps I was wrong to assume that you fit into the latter group, but your posts certainly lean that way at the very least. If you are truly open to this truth, far be it from me from keeping you from it....I think this will help to further answer your questions (and I think the section titled “How God Speaks to Us” will specifically help you with the topic at hand):

http://www.catholic.com/documents/pillar-of-fire-pillar-of-truth


192 posted on 06/23/2013 4:26:19 PM PDT by piusv
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To: NYer
Moreover, they are either unable or prefer not to answer the question: "Who decided which books should be in the Canon of Scripture ... and ... by what authority did they make that determination?"

Still crickets.

193 posted on 06/23/2013 4:31:04 PM PDT by piusv
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To: NYer
It is a mistake to limit "Christ’s word" to the written word only or to suggest that all his teachings were reduced to writing. The Bible nowhere supports either notion.

Why do you keep repeating this when we have shown you so many times that it is not true???

John clearly tells us there is nothing that the Catholic church can come up with whether it be by special revelation, or from a warning from the ghost of Mary, or a supposed infallible statement from some faker sitting on a fake throne that can add or take away from the requirements of salvation that you have read in the scriptures...

And John says, God knows they are going to lie to you and tell you the scripture will not be enough for your salvation so He had me write this down:

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Joh_20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Case closed...

194 posted on 06/23/2013 4:32:43 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: piusv
James 1:4 illustrates the problem:

And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

If we apply the same principle of exegesis to this text that the Protestant does to 2 Timothy 3:16, then we would have to say that all we need is patience (steadfastness) to be perfected. We don’t need faith, hope, charity, the Church, baptism, or anything else.

There has been no response to this part of Tim Staples' argument. He took one verse out of the Bible and by doing so it appears that all we really need is patience to make us "complete" and "perfect".

And....still some more....crickets. Just a repeat of 2Timothy 3:16.

195 posted on 06/23/2013 4:36:58 PM PDT by piusv
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To: muawiyah; metmom
Memory palace techniques are not explained in the Bible ~ but the memnonic devices used to structure them are there. Those who have knowledge will understand.

Oh, I think the idea has always been there. For example:

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. (Psalm 119:11)

Tremble and do not sin; when you are on your beds, search your hearts and be silent. (Psalm 4:4)

The law of their God is in their hearts; their feet do not slip. (Psalm 37:31)

I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart. (Psalm 40:8)

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Corinthians 7:1)

196 posted on 06/23/2013 4:41:20 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Salvation
I’ll read the Gospels from people who met and walked with Jesus first

They DIDN'T KNOW WHO HE WAS in the flesh. Your lack of understanding is rated very high if you don't even know that!

Paul came later.

HE KNEW HIM 'in The Spirit' and was chosen to write over half of the NT! "For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

The Vatican/RCC is designed to keep the 'easily led' deceived and it shows with post after post.

197 posted on 06/23/2013 4:43:42 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: piusv

That's because it's a specious question, and has been answered in sundry ways, many times around here.

The answers don't lead back to Rome per se...which is part of why it's specious, for that is the manner in which the leading questions are desired to apply, is it not?

198 posted on 06/23/2013 4:46:01 PM PDT by BlueDragon
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To: BlueDragon

Please do link/quote at least some of the many answers to that question. I’m new here. Perhaps I’ve missed them.

My guess is that none of the answers actually answer the question, but please do prove me wrong.


199 posted on 06/23/2013 4:58:16 PM PDT by piusv
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To: presently no screen name
Well since anyone is free to interpret scripture (according to you all), mine is just as valid.
200 posted on 06/23/2013 5:07:34 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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