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According to Scripture (Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?)
Catholic Answers ^ | Tim Staples

Posted on 06/22/2013 1:01:24 PM PDT by NYer

"If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!" That belief, commonly known as sola scriptura, was a central component of all I believed as a Protestant. This bedrock Protestant teaching claims that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith and morals for Christians. Diving deeper into its meaning to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism about twenty years ago, I found that there was no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors and no book I could read to get a better understanding of it.

What role does tradition play? How explicit does something have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? Does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How can we determine the canon using sola scriptura? All these questions and more pointed to the central question: Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?

Most Protestants find it in 2 Timothy 3:16-17:

All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

The fact is that this passage (or any other) does not even hint at Scripture being the sole rule of faith. It says that Scripture is inspired and necessary—a rule of faith—but in no way does it teach that Scripture alone is all one needs to determine the truth about faith and morals in the Church. My attempt to defend this bedrock teaching of Protestantism led me to conclude that sola scriptura is unreasonable, unbiblical, and unworkable.

Unreasonable

The Protestant appeal to the sole authority of Scripture to defend sola scriptura is a textbook example of circular reasoning, and it betrays an essential problem with the doctrine itself: It is contrary to reason. One cannot prove the inspiration of Scripture, or any text, from the text itself. The Book of Mormon, the Hindu Vedas, the Qur’an, the writings of Mary Baker Eddy, and other books all claim inspiration, but this does not make them inspired.

Closely related to this is the question of the canon. After all, if the Bible is the sole rule of faith, we first have to know which books are included in the Bible. Many books were believed to be inspired and, therefore, canonical in the early Church. How do we separate the wheat from the chaff? The Protestant must use the principle of sola scriptura to answer the question of the canon. It simply cannot be done.

I recall a conversation with a Protestant friend about this. He said, "The Holy Spirit guided the early Christians and helped them gather the canon of Scripture and declare it to be the inspired word of God, as Jesus said in John 16:13." I thought that that answer was more Catholic than Protestant. John 16:13 does tells us that the Spirit will lead the apostles, and by extension, the Church, into truth. But it has nothing to say about sola scriptura or the nature or number of books in the canon.

The Bible does not and cannot answer questions about its own inspiration or about the canon. Historically, the Church used sacred Tradition outside of Scripture as its criterion for the canon. The early Christians, many of whom disagreed on the issue, needed the Church in council to give an authoritative decree to settle the question. Those are the historical facts.

To put my friend’s argument into perspective, imagine a Catholic making a similar claim to demonstrate that Mary is the Mother of God. "We believe the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth and guided the early Christians to declare this truth." Would the Protestant respond with a hearty amen? No. He would be more likely to say, "Show me where it says in the Bible that Mary is the Mother of God!" The same question, of course, applies to Protestants concerning the canon: "Show me where the canon of Scripture is in the Bible!"

Will the Circle Be Unbroken?

The issues of the inspiration and canon of Scripture are the Achilles heel of any intellectual defense of sola scriptura. So weak are the biblical attempts at an answer that often the Protestant response just turns the argument against the Catholic. "How do you know Scripture is inspired? Your reasoning is just as circular. You say the Church is infallible because the inspired Scripture says so, then you say that Scripture is inspired and infallible because the Church says so!"

Not only is this not an answer, but it also misrepresents the Catholic position. Catholics do not claim the Church is infallible because Scripture says so. The Church is infallible because Jesus said so. The Church was established and functioning as the infallible spokesperson for the Lord decades before the New Testament was written.

It is true that we know Scripture to be inspired and canonical only because the Church has told us so. That is historical fact. Catholics reason to inspiration of Scripture through demonstrating first its historical reliability and the truth about Christ and the Church. Then we can reasonably rely upon the testimony of the Church to tell us the text is inspired. This is not circular reasoning. The New Testament is the most accurate and verifiable historical document in all of ancient history, but one cannot deduce from this that it is inspired.

The testimony of the New Testament is backed up by hundreds of works by early Christian and non-Christian writers. We have the first-century testimonies of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, the Church Fathers—some of whom were contemporaries of the apostles—and highly reliable non-Christian writers such as Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus, and others, all testifying to the veracity of the Christ-event in various ways. It is on the basis of the historical evidence that we can say it is a historical fact that Jesus lived, died and was reported to be resurrected from the dead by over 500 eyewitnesses (1 Cor. 15:6). Many of these eyewitnesses went to their deaths testifying to the truth of the Resurrection of Christ (Luke 1:1-4; John 21:18-19; 24-25; Acts 1:1-11).

The historical record also tells us that Jesus Christ established a Church—not a book—to be the foundation of the Christian faith (Matt. 16:15-18; 18:15-18; cf. Eph. 2:20; 3:10, 20-21; 4:11-15; 1 Tim. 3:15; Heb. 13:7, 17). Christ said of his Church, "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" (Luke 10:16).

The many books that comprise the Bible never tell us that they are inspired, nor do they answer many other essential questions about their canonicity. Who can or cannot be the human authors of the texts? Who wrote them in the first place? But Scripture does tell us—remarkably clearly—that Jesus established a kingdom on earth, the Church, with a hierarchy and the authority to speak for him (Luke 20:29-32; Matt. 10:40; 28:18-20). If we did not have Scripture, we would still have the Church. But without the Church, there would be no New Testament Scripture. It was members of this kingdom, the Church, who wrote Scripture, preserved its many texts, and eventually canonized it. Scripture alone could not do any of this.

The bottom line is that the truth of the Catholic Church is rooted in history. Jesus Christ is a historical person who gave his authority to his Church to teach, govern, and sanctify in his place. His Church gave us the New Testament with the authority of Christ. Reason rejects sola scriptura as a self-refuting principle.

Unbiblical

There are four problems with the defense of sola scriptura using 2 Timothy 3:16. First, it does not speak of the New Testament at all. The two verses preceding 2 Timothy 3:16 say:

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

This passage does not refer to the New Testament. In fact, none of the New Testament books had been written when Timothy was a child. Claiming this verse as authentication for a book that had not been written yet goes far beyond what the text claims.

Second, 2 Timothy 3:16 does not claim Scripture to be the sole rule of faith for Christians. As a Protestant, I was guilty of seeing more than one sola in Scripture that simply did not exist. The Bible teaches justification by faith, and we Catholics believe it, but we do not believe in justification by faith alone, as Protestants do. Among other reasons, the Bible says that we are "justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:24). There is no sola in 2 Timothy 3:16 either. The passage never claims Scripture to be the sole rule of faith.

James 1:4 illustrates the problem:

And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

If we apply the same principle of exegesis to this text that the Protestant does to 2 Timothy 3:16, then we would have to say that all we need is patience (steadfastness) to be perfected. We don’t need faith, hope, charity, the Church, baptism, or anything else.

Of course, any Christian knows this would be absurd. But James’s emphasis on the central importance of patience is even stronger than Paul’s emphasis on Scripture. The key is to see that there is not a sola in either text. Sola patientia would be just as wrong as sola scriptura.

Third, the Bible teaches that oral Tradition is equal to Scripture. It is silent when it comes to sola scriptura, but it is remarkably clear in teaching that oral Tradition is just as much the word of God as Scripture is. In what most scholars believe was the first book written in the New Testament, Paul said:

And we also thank God . . . that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God. (1 Thess. 2:13)

According to Paul, the spoken words of the apostles were the word of God. In fact, when Paul wrote his second letter to the Thessalonians, he urged Christians there to receive the oral and written Traditions as equally authoritative. This would be expected because both are the word of God:

So, then, brethren stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. (2 Thess. 2:15)

Finally, 2 Timothy 3:16 is specifically addressed to members of the hierarchy. It is a pastoral epistle, written to a young bishop Paul had ordained. R. J. Foster points out that the phrase "man of God" refers to ministers, not to the average layperson (A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, Thomas Nelson and Sons, 1149). This title was used in the Old Testament to describe those consecrated to the service of God (Deut. 33:1; 1 Sam. 2:27; 1 Kgs. 12:22). Not only does the text not say Scripture sola, but Paul’s exhortation for Timothy to study the word of God is in the context of an exhortation to "preach the word" as a minister of Christ. To use this text to claim that sola scriptura is being taught to the average layperson is—to borrow a phrase from Paul—going far "beyond what is written" (1 Cor. 4:6).

Unworkable

The silence of Scripture on sola scriptura is deafening. But when it comes to the true authority of Scripture and Tradition and to the teaching and governing authority of the Church, the text is clear:

If your brother sins against you go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. . . . But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you. . . . If he refuses to listen . . . tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Matt. 18:15-17)

According to Scripture, the Church is the final court of appeal for the people of God in matters of faith, morals, and discipline. It is telling that since the Reformation of almost 500 years ago—a Reformation claiming sola scriptura as its formal principle—there are now over 33,000 Protestant denominations. In John 10:16, Jesus prophesied there would be "one flock, one shepherd." Reliance on sola scriptura has not been effective in establishing doctrine or authority.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; itisnt; scripture; solascriptura; tradition
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To: Iscool

that would be ‘authoritative’...


261 posted on 06/24/2013 6:22:46 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool

Uh-huh.


262 posted on 06/24/2013 6:31:53 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Iscool

It’s almost like Catholics want to make a mountain out of a molehill. Or something like that.


263 posted on 06/24/2013 6:33:35 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: piusv; boatbums; Iscool
Besides, by finding support from the Bible, I am only encouraging the heretical belief that all Truth MUST be found in the Bible.

What truth is found outside Scripture and how do you know its truth?

What truth is the Bible lacking that we need to know for salvation and growing in our faith?

John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

264 posted on 06/24/2013 6:37:48 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: presently no screen name
I have NO DOUBT catholics will burn burn burn!

As long as someone is trusting something besides the finished work of Christ, then that will be the case.

It's really too bad that people think that Christ's death wasn't enough and that they have to add something to it.

Like God needs our help?

I don't think so.

265 posted on 06/24/2013 6:40:00 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

You sound like Pilate.


266 posted on 06/24/2013 6:42:29 AM PDT by piusv
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Comment #267 Removed by Moderator

To: Iscool
My original Further Jesus actually called him Kephas in the Aramaic which they all spoke.
Purely conjecture on your part... Really John 1:42 Then he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon the son of John;* you will be called Cephas” (which is translated Peter).Do you actually ever read the Bible?
My original comment You do know that Kephas means rock.
It also means STONE...Like a piece of gravel...
Given that you don't seem able to read the Bible, why would I trust your opinion here?
268 posted on 06/24/2013 7:04:25 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: metmom
Please tell me that you know that Jesus called Peter Cephas in John 1:42.
269 posted on 06/24/2013 7:06:39 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: vladimir998; metmom
We are judged and, if Purgatory is necessary, we undergo it.

You will be judged by the Final Authority - God's Word.

"There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not accept My Words; the very Words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day." John 12:48

So, yes, catholics and all their leaders will burn and it is final. For they were told GOD'S WORD is the final authority and they believed not. The throne of satan/Vatican - pride and disobedience - gone forever!

The price of believing 'man' before God. Adam/Eve's example in God's Word was fruitless to man-made believers, catholics, mormons, muslims, buddishts, etc. etc. - 'man'/satan deceived them, also.

Sola Scriptura LIVES FOREVER as do those who believed on JESUS The Word ONLY - for they Heard and Obeyed ONLY HIM!

270 posted on 06/24/2013 7:12:30 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

According to James 1:4 all we need is steadfastness to be perfect and complete.


271 posted on 06/24/2013 7:25:41 AM PDT by piusv
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To: boatbums; piusv; NYer
No crickets, just answers that have not been accepted yet. Here is a good explanation if you care to know it: The Formation of the Canon of the New Testament
By good you mean pathetic joke don't you?

In 1 Thessalonians Paul mentions a previous writing to Thessalonioca, why isn't that letter included?
Further in the New Testament, there are references to a third letter from Paul to the Corinthians (1 Cor 5:9) and of a letter of his to the Laodiceans (Col 4:16;

How about book of the Annals of the Kings of Media and Persia mentioned in Esther 10:2?
How about Annals of the Kings of Israel (1 Kgs 14:19) and the book of the Annals of the Kings of Judah (1 Kgs 14:29).
The same goes for the book of the Kings of Judah and Israel (2 Chr 16:11), and the Memoirs of Nehemiah (2 Mc 2:13).
Jude 9 Quotes "The Assumption of Moses, Jude 14 Quotes the book of Enoch. Where are those books.

272 posted on 06/24/2013 7:27:04 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: metmom
Like God needs our help? I don't think so.

Without HIM we are nothing!

Satan is hell bent in proving God wrong and he is using the Vatican/RCC to do just that. Catholics bow to satan 'THEIR infallible leader' and his teachings.

"How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations! For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Is 114:12-14

So it's no surprise SOLA SCRIPTURA is not their belief, nor is it for the mormons or muslims or for any of satan's ilk. "Enter through the narrow gate. For WIDE is the gate and BROAD is the road that leads to DESTRUCTION, and MANY enter through it." Matt 7:13

273 posted on 06/24/2013 7:31:33 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: piusv
piusv, Why didn't you say so before? (I surely missed it) I'd be happy to address Staples’ reference to James 1:4, in fact I should have earlier as it certainly is pertinent to my previous comments.

James says simply that steadfastness, not wavering or weakening or losing patience, giving up, cannot be lacking if one is to have Christian perfection. As Stables points out to say that is ALL that is required would be absurd. So.

Paul's words to Timothy, like much in these threads, often receive the emphasis upon the words instead of the meaning.

Paul lists a few, not all by any means, benefits of “all Scripture”, training that a completely equipped and competent Christian could not lack. He does not exclude by silence the need for faith, a clean heart, etc.
But Timothy was taking a role of oversight and these particular qualities and skills, reproving, teaching, setting matters straight would be absolutely essential to him. An experienced older man advising a younger man.

But Paul is silent on the value of “Sacred Tradition” as he says what is beneficial and useful for the completely equipped man of God.
Was it an oversight? An exclusion by silence? Or even an inclusion by an earlier definition, that tradition and Scripture almost entirely overlap?

In brief, Is there some OTHER source, OTHER THAN “all Scripture”, that would fully equip and make competent the man of God?
Tradition? No...NYer made the point that Tradition and Scripture almost entirely overlap. If so, I can therefore find Tradition as could Timothy, in “all Scripture”.

But Paul didn't use tradition and Scripture as interchangeable terms and while you and I can name some part of “all Scripture”, can either of us name a single “Sacred Tradition” necessary to being a completely equipped and competent Christian not already available in All Scripture?

274 posted on 06/24/2013 7:34:08 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: presently no screen name

“You will be judged by the Final Authority - God’s Word.”

I actually will be judged by the Word made flesh. He will judge me by His word. 2 Timothy 4:1; Matthew 25:31-46.


275 posted on 06/24/2013 7:41:50 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: piusv
According to James 1:4 all we need is steadfastness to be perfect and complete.

Then throw away your bible and keep only that page!

276 posted on 06/24/2013 7:43:36 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: count-your-change
Since not all Christian beliefs are coined exactly in Scripture (ie. "Trinity"), your desire to see "Sacred Tradition" coined in Scripture is pointless. The fact that is not there proves nothing.

Many have listed various passages re: the importance placed on Traditions and I have given you a resource to better understand what some of those Traditions are and how Sacred Tradition fits into God's plan.

The point Tim Staples was making was that James 1:4 looks exactly like 2Timothy3:16. If we can interpret 2Tim3:16 as instructing us "All" that we need, then we can do the same with James1:4. Using the same protestant "logic" in the former, we can deduce that all we need is steadfastness...and nothing else because as James said "lacking nothing".

277 posted on 06/24/2013 7:44:55 AM PDT by piusv
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To: presently no screen name

Bwahahahahahah!


278 posted on 06/24/2013 7:45:51 AM PDT by piusv
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To: vladimir998

^^I actually will be judged by the Word made flesh. He will judge me by His word. 2 Timothy 4:1; Matthew 25:31-46.**

So right. While we are alive, Christ is perfect mercy. At the moment of our death Christ becomes perfect justice.


279 posted on 06/24/2013 7:51:29 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: verga
And since you didn't answer the question, I guess your answer is that you got nothing.

I guess your question was a red herring.

280 posted on 06/24/2013 8:06:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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