Posted on 06/22/2013 1:01:24 PM PDT by NYer
And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
If we apply the same principle of exegesis to this text that the Protestant does to 2 Timothy 3:16, then we would have to say that all we need is patience (steadfastness) to be perfected. We don’t need faith, hope, charity, the Church, baptism, or anything else.
Sola Patience. Ruh roh. I'm in BIG trouble.
It’s kinda like waiting for a sola scriptura protestant to explain how they “know” that the Bible is inspired by God.
I believe it is and you believe it is, but can you or any of us prove it?
The problem with what you said is that it is based upon an objective falsehood. What I said was not. And that won’t change. Protestantism is a heresy from the 16th century.
No, actually you’ll spend some time in Purgatory. We’ll pray for you. You’ll be fine.
“Please read the above passage ... again. The Bible, as you know it, did not exist in 325 AD. There were many, many gospels, documents and letters. Which ones were authoritative? None of them had yet been compiled into a book.”
What trash! Do you even have any idea what you’re talking about? So, when Ignatius, Polycarp and Irenaeus were quoting the scripture within the 1st and 2nd century, they were quoting books that DID NOT EXIST!?
2 Peter 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. They spoke the word of God which is all sufficient.
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. The Scriture is sufficient in advising us regarding the things of God.
Revelation 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book. Adding to or taking away from what is in the Scritpure is FORBIDDEN; therefore the Scritpures alone are sufficient as to our spiritual needs.
Moreover, they are either unable or prefer not to answer the question: "Who decided which books should be in the Canon of Scripture ... and ... by what authority did they make that determination?"
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. -- John 13:34-35
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. -- I Peter 3:15-16
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. -- I Corinthians 13:2
According to Scripture, is it God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit who most approves of what you just posted?
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. -- Ephesians 4:29-32
“According to Scripture, is it God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit who most approves of what you just posted?”
None! He was too soft!
Mat_23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Let me rephrase my response. The compilation of scrolls that comprise one physical book (OT and NT), did not exist in 325 AD.
:-D touché!
The Bible denies that it is sufficient as the complete rule of faith. Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). He instructs us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).
This oral teaching was accepted by Christians, just as they accepted the written teaching that came to them later. Jesus told his disciples: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). The Church, in the persons of the apostles, was given the authority to teach by Christ; the Church would be his representative. He commissioned them, saying, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19).
And how was this to be done? By preaching, by oral instruction: "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ" (Rom. 10:17). The Church would always be the living teacher. It is a mistake to limit "Christ’s word" to the written word only or to suggest that all his teachings were reduced to writing. The Bible nowhere supports either notion.
Paul illustrated what tradition is: "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. . . . Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed" (1 Cor. 15:3,11). The apostle praised those who followed Tradition: "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2).
The first Christians "devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching" (Acts 2:42) long before there was a New Testament. From the very beginning, the fullness of Christian teaching was found in the Church as the living embodiment of Christ, not in a book. The teaching Church, with its oral, apostolic tradition, was authoritative. Paul himself gives a quotation from Jesus that was handed down orally to him: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35).
Mat_23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. -- James 1:19-20
The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. -- Psalm 103:8
I've long noticed that people have used Jesus's language to rationalize their own. If any of you are so tempted, though, first examine how much like Jesus you actually are. Doing justice to this step may be one reason why it pays to be slow to anger.
Even the resurrection of Lazarus was not “proof” enough for the truly hard hearted so being able to convince all is not a reasonable goal. And indeed, it was the teachable and sheep like that Jesus sought out and responded to his message. To the rest, shake the dust off our feet.
So to me proving this or that is not a high priority, I'll present the evidence as best I can and if any feel it's not sufficient “proof” then so be it. All anyone can really do is scatter seeds.
Well put.
“I’ve long noticed that people have used Jesus’s language to rationalize their own.”
Indeed, I’ve long noticed that there are people who enter these threads not to add anything productive, except to aid and abet those attacking the authority and historicity of the New Testament and its doctrines. Happens in Mormon threads too.
The compendium didn’t exist ~ there were many documents ~ they were brought together into what we call THE NEW TESTAMENT. It’s not like Jesus handed over bound copies to the Apostles.
Sure put the sword to that guy eh!
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