Was the shape of the menorah in the Holy Temple...round or straight branched?

Chabad.org ^ | 7/14/13 | Rabbi Mendel Kaplan

[Phinneous]

A video class regarding the shape of the Menorah (candelabra) used in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem.

[Phinneous]

In short---it was straight.

Enjoy!

[Hardraade]

I think Reform holds that it was Electric...

[Phinneous]

OOL (Oy-vey Out Loud)

[cripplecreek]

I don’t remember.

[Phinneous]

From where would you forget?

[Marcella]

I have a miniature copy of it and it’s straight.

[cripplecreek]

Well its been so long since I was there.

[Phinneous]

....I don’t have to speak, and she defends me...

[jjotto]

From the Arch of Titus in Rome depicting spoils from the Temple in Jerusalem.

Coin from the Maccabean era.

[OneWingedShark]

Square. All right angles.

We can't have it be cooked (round), can we?

; )

[jjotto]

Another view of the Menorah's shape.

[Phinneous]

Gotta hear the class.... You post the classic counter examples, of course. Even later version of ArtScroll chumashim picture straight branches.

[jjotto]

hehe

I’ve heard the class many times.

[parmamenian]

I was just looking at a picture of the Arch of Titus in Rome that was made to commemorate his destruction of Jerusalem. The relief in the arch shows it as curved/or rounded. Don't know if it is accurate, but I believe the arch was made not too long after the attack.

[anchorclankor]

The Menorah picture from the Temple Institute web page. The Menorah is made from one solid piece of gold.
http://www.templeinstitute.org/vessels_gallery_11.htm

[Carry_Okie]

The relief in the arch shows it as curved/or rounded. Don't know if it is accurate, but I believe the arch was made not too long after the attack.

The menorah depicted on the Arch of Titus is not the original of which the article speaks. It was made during the Second Temple Period under the direction of Herod, the original having been fabricated with three distinct legs as opposed to the tiered base you see in the Arch upon which are a number of pagan symbols. The orthodox don't like it a bit.

There is popular art from that period found repeatedly in Israel that depicts the latter three-legged form (thought by some to be a symbol of protest against Roman occupation).

[Phinneous]

That is the crux of the class...

[jjotto]

The menorah on the Arch looks like the menorah on the Maccabean coins, which far predate Herod’s Second Temple.

[Carry_Okie]

The menorah on the Arch looks like the menorah on the Maccabean coins, which far predate Herod’s Second Temple.

Having reviewed a fair bit of the literature on the topic, I will concede the point about straight v. rounded arms. It would seem that those holding for straight arms are in concurrence with Rashi and Maimonides. Yet the Hasmonian coins of which you speak are not undisputed, particularly as regards the base, the consensus about which is that it is Hasmonian. The key problem of that depicted on the Arch of Titus is that it sports pagan iconography, such as the dragon and eagle, which are definitely characteristic of Roman iconography. There are also pottery shards and mosaics from that time depicting the menorah with three legs.

From one particularly thorough source:

If one looks closely at the base of the Menora, one discovers the matter is even more horrific. The panels on the base include: the picture of two eagles (the symbol of Rome), and a dragon with a tail of a fish! The dragon was one of the idols of Greek mythology, worshiped during Roman rule. The Mishna in Avoda Zara states that, "if one finds vessels and upon them are the picture of a dragon... they must be thrown into the Dead Sea." They must be destroyed because one is forbidden to derive any benefit from as an idol. In fact, an exact duplication of panel, both the picture of the dragon as well as the border motif, is found in a Roman Temple in Turkey.

The majority of discussions I saw cited the base as a Herodian creation intended to curry favor with his Roman overlords. The notable lack of the menorah on coins after that time and the third century return to a three-legged image in concurrence with the Gemara on the topic suggest a similar conclusion.

[jjotto]

You are correct about the base of the menorah on Hashmonaim coins. It is indeed different from the base depicted on the Herodian menorah even though the curve of the branches seems similar.

I do tend to lean toward the Chabad view, though I can see that the counter argument might be correct in the end.