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To: vladimir998
>> Now, how about answering the question I asked: “Does God save men against their will?”<<

I answered that. Didn’t you read my post?

>>No. Catholics believe eternal life is eternal. What would be temporary would be their possession of it if they refused the love and mercy of God.<<

How interesting. Once again doubling down in denial of what scripture says and denying that once one believes on Christ it’s eternal.

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24)

See that in red? It says has passed>/font>. Not will pass if, or might pass contingent upon. It says has passed/. Done deal for eternity. Now you still say it dependent on one thing or another. Stop denying what scripture says.

Here’s another.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. There it is again! We are sanctified. Not will be if, or might be contingent upon. It says we are. Then it follows with for ever.

395 posted on 09/05/2013 10:37:26 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear; vladimir998

Two brief (not exahustive) points: (as I’m typing on a tiny iPhone)

About John 5.24: here the phrase “hears My word” appears as just that but elsewhere in Scripture we read that phrase coupled with “and obeys” or something similar. Hence it’s well understood that in this passage the condition “and obeys” applies as well. It’s simply eisegesis for anyone to insist “and obey isn’t in John 5:24 so it doesn’t apply there”. It must be there, implied, or else Scripture contradicts Scripture. (Cf Luke 11:28 as an example)

IOW, it’s simply understood that if/when we read “hears My word” it also means obeying that Word or else it becomes a mere statement “I believe in God”; even the demons believe (and tremble) though.

WRT Heb 10, it’s another point of proper contextual (and in this instance translational) reading. In most versions, Heb 10:14 reads “...For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy”

Note the phrase “...being made holy”. This is a better way to understand “sanctified” in the passage of Heb. 10:10-14.

So, holiness is a condition to perfection.


396 posted on 09/05/2013 11:29:52 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: CynicalBear
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

397 posted on 09/05/2013 11:31:32 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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