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To: Bayard

“I think the issue is language, not meaning.”


The issue is not language, it’s meaning. Because when Augustine and us say “it is by grace,’ we do not mean “it is by obedience and submission to sacraments,” which is what you mean. We do not say it is by “freely accepting a grace that is ineffectual to make us willing,” we say, with Augustine, that it is a grace which lights upon a man and makes the unwilling willing, and preserves the weak human will to salvation, and this He does without any noting of their righteousness, whether foreseen or not, but purely by the free-gift.

“You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you. John 15:16 For if they had been elected because they had believed, they themselves would certainly have first chosen Him by believing in Him, so that they should deserve to be elected. But He takes away this supposition altogether when He says, You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.” (Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints, Ch. 34)

The Romish system is entirely backwards, because it denies the holy scripture which Augustine here so excellently explains, and they make grace and salvation the fruit of our labor, rather than the origin of our faith, labor and fruit.


86 posted on 08/31/2013 8:07:46 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

88 posted on 08/31/2013 8:11:41 PM PDT by narses
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
it is by obedience and submission to sacraments,” which is what you mean.

I think you should point to me Catholic doctrine which says this. Do you mean obedience to what?

Augustine was still a Bishop. He had many priests and Christians who were obedient to him, because he spoke with the authority of Bishops which is the authority of a steward of Christ.

89 posted on 08/31/2013 8:13:51 PM PDT by Bayard
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Bayard

Are you going to respond to post # 68?

1) You used a quote from a banned website.

2) When you said that you got the quote from the Brewer PDF that was untrue.

Care to comment?


90 posted on 08/31/2013 8:13:57 PM PDT by vladimir998
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