Posted on 10/04/2013 2:11:50 PM PDT by jodyel
Accepted, and true - but we cannot parse the prophets on that basis - THEY didn't know what they were talking about, but YHWH did. The testimony of Yeshua the Messiah IS the spirit of prophecy(Rev 19:10). Since the entirety of Scripture, the whole of it, is prophetic, then the whole of Scripture IS the Testimony of Yeshua. It cannot be double-minded, but always pointing the same way, because the author and witness of the Prophecy is Yeshua. HE said every word of it.
So it is with Isaiah 50. It was Judah that God said He would divorce. Because of the people selling themselves to commit sin (v1), the Babylonian captivity of the kingdom). He says that Judah is hopeless to try to be redeemed by man. He makes it clear that only He and He alone could redeem, and confirming it with what He had done by His power in the past (v2-3)
Then there should be a bill of divorcement - But there is no evidence thereof - YHWH has never said to Judah, "You are not my people, and I am not your God." The good news set aside for a moment, the Bible is also a very legal document, spanning every and all 'contracts' between YHWH and Man. I find it hard to believe that He would not include the very specific language that requires (He DID do so once, and only once, and not against Judah).
And Is 54 makes a specific distinction between the 'wife' and the 'barren woman' - The barren woman would have way more children than the married wife - so they specifically cannot be the same entity. The wife admittedly has children, the barren woman does not (at the time of the prophecy). They are two different things. One WAS a wife in her youth, acted shamefully, and was rejected. The other, the married wife, still IS married.
All of this prophecy is future when Isaiah wrote it. The divorce between God and Judah took place over 100 years in the future, when the Babylonians took captive the kingdom.
No, He never has divorced her, and could not divorce her, because the Promised One had to come through Judah. Don't get me wrong, Judah did poorly, and was sorely punished more than once, but the scepter and the rod could not be taken away... Hence never divorced. The rod and the scepter were declared ALWAYS to reside in Judah, and that can't have changed.
Judah is the wife, not the barren woman.
Then please tell us who it is, IYHO. So we can move forward with this! :)
Is the "barren woman" the Sadducees and Pharisees of Matthew 3:7? FALSE ISRAEL. As compared to the Little Flock of Luke 12:32, TRUE ISRAEL?
The barren woman is the New Jerusalem which up until that time had no children. After Christ’s death and resurrection is when the New Jerusalem began to “have children” as in those converted. The children of the New Jerusalem consist of both Jews and Gentiles that were converted and saved by Christ.
THANK YOU and that makes PERFECT sense, CB!
Scripture is like that when we pray for guidance by the Holy Spirit. No thanks to me (although I know what you mean) but thanks be to God for enlightenment.
AMEN! So FINALLY we can move forward with this!
Ultimately true (Gal 4:27)- but are you telling me that New Jerusalem had a shame of her youth? was married in her youth and rejected? New Jerusalem is spotless. New Jerusalem was not rejected by YHWH. There must be more in Gal 4:27.
The Barren woman is the House of Israel (as distinct from the House of Judah), referring to the northern Kingdom. BOTH were married to YHWH, but the Northern tribes were divorced:
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Nonetheless, promises specific to the house of Isreal (all of Hosea particularly) must be fulfilled. They are the ones called lo ammi 'not my people'. They are the ones who are to be passed through the nations as seed. They are rejected of YHWH entirely... though in the place where they were rejected HE SWEARS they will one day be called the Sons of YHWH. He promises that one day he will marry her again.
But the law states explicitly that a man can take back a woman out of divorcement ONLY if she has not slept with another during the time of divorcement (which Israel certainly DID). So how does YHWH honor His promise to take her back without breaking His Law (which He will never do)?
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Somebody had to die to end the marriage vow. Then a new marriage vow could be arranged. Rachel weeps for her children because they are not - Benjamin and Joseph - Joseph of the coat of many colors (races?) Joseph whose children were not of a Hebrew mother - Joseph whose strength was in the land of Egypt before they were told to 'come out of her'. But Joseph (and most of Benjamin) were carried away - How many children do you think Rachel has by now?
@smvoice:
What started this conversation was your suggestion that most of the Church is gentile - It is said that the most prolific seed found in Asia and Europe is the seed of Ghengis Khan, and that in but a handful of centuries in comparison to the seed of the House of Israel... And that by one man in comparison to the nation of men hauled away thousands of years ago, and dispersed throughout the nations. But YHWH SWORE he would not even let ONE seed of the House of Israel escape his view.
When the Jews rejected the Annointed One, YHWH SWORE to take the covenant from them and give it to lo ammi - Give it to 'Not my People' It is she who inherits the gentiles, both by conversion to the Covenant, and very likely by actual bloodline. Do not forget who is grafted unto whom. Replacement theology leaves it's mark on Christendom, even to this day.
Who then is the Bride? Exactly who you think she is, but with a depth that is not understood. There is not one thing for the Jew and one thing for the Gentile, but rather, by now, the Jew and the Gentile are one thing.
And that is but a tiny touch on what one will find if one can distinguish the difference between Israel and Judah, and the Whole House of Israel (both together). I don't think one can even begin to understand the prophets without that distinction. Look now to whom Yeshua sent His disciples...
I'll be brief. Between the opening of the sixth and seventh seals is chapter 7 (KJV). Chapter 7 deals with the destiny of those who are protected. Then the seventh seal is opened in chapter 8, when the seven trumps begin sounding.
In Matthew 24, Yeshua describes the sounding of the trumps as follows:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
There appear markers dividing the "tribulation" from the much worse "wrath/woe". They are the appearance of the Messiah in the heavens (the day of the Lord), the sounding of the trumpets, and the transformation of those who are in Messiah (both the living and those in the grave).
Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”
In the opinion of many who've studied this for many years, the above will likely occur on Tishri 1 (of the corrected calendar), Yom Teruuah (year unknown) - (fifteen days prior to the marriage supper of the Lamb).
Bravo! Well done.
What about tying in a reference to Ezekiel 37:15-28 when you have an opportunity. :)
>> “And that is but a tiny touch on what one will find if one can distinguish the difference between Israel and Judah, and the Whole House of Israel (both together). I don’t think one can even begin to understand the prophets without that distinction.” <<
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Bravo!
It’s been a long time since that kind of truthful analysis has been posted here. The Hyper-Calvinists got the last guy that was courageous enough to talk about it banned. That was more than ten years ago.
I think you meant #341, not 328.
:)
He was trying to poke his own reply but looked at the wrong number.
...I know..I was just kidding..:)
I'm a little confused here.
Are you saying that the Jews who rejected Jesus were the tribe of Judah, and that the Gentiles to whom the gospel has spread and are accepting Jesus as savior are of the House of Israel?
And this is how God is remarrying Israel?
Great question and I’m confused, too.
I thought I was the only one.
I guess what else I’m asking is if the Gentiles who are being saved by faith in Christ, through the new covenant, are of the bloodline of the House of Israel.
If the house of Israel was dispersed among the Gentiles, that would make sense.
Maybe that could explain the apparent randomness of why some people and families seem to see a lot of conversion, and others don’t.
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