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To: redleghunter; smvoice; Iscool
>>Paul already completed a missionary journey before the Jerusalem council.<<

Yes he did and it says in the first verses of that chapter that the reason they called for that council was because he was coming across people who were teaching following the Jewish laws so there was “dissension and disputation”. That’s how Acts 15 starts out so there was definitely something different with what Paul was teaching. That council was where they discussed what was needed for salvation.

Many were still saying the laws of Moses had to be followed and they had to be circumcised etc. Obviously the teaching to that point had still been to the Jewish customs and mindset. It was after some discussion which was obviously a little contentious thus the words “much disputing”. It’s not difficult to see that there was something different between what Paul was preaching and what the others were preaching. This is the council they called to determine what was going on.

Finally it was James who stood and made the declaration only “that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood” and then they decided to send letters to all the churches saying “ Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment”.

There it’s obvious that those who had gone out from the apostles had been teaching to follow the old “rules” which they now wanted stopped. It’s obvious by all of that that like you say Paul had completed a missionary journey but there was a difference in what he was teaching thus the call for a council to straighten things out.

>> Several times I have asked for when this new revelation was put into action<<

Like I showed above. Paul was already teaching salvation by grace before the council but not the others to the extent he was. The others were still holding to some of the Jewish “rules”. This, by the way is understandable, because up to the time of Paul the focus was still on the Jews to the greatest extent as I showed in a previous post. The twelve apostles had been taught by Jesus who was still following all Jewish customs. Those “customs” would be hard to let go of I would think.

427 posted on 11/28/2013 8:39:29 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear; smvoice; roamer_1; daniel1212; Iscool
There is no evidence Peter and the 11 were following Jewish ceremonial laws that were clearly fulfilled by Jesus Christ. Paul in Galatians recounting the council called what was present "leaven." That means there were evil influences not ones seen as "ok." Paul presents that record and Peter agrees. There is no indication two gospels were being preached. We do leave Acts 15 and Galatians with the understanding that there were Jews who were pestering and accusing other Jews and Gentiles for not following the ceremonial laws. Paul rightly points out this is error for all of them because Jesus Christ is the fulfillment. Peter knew this from the very beginning because he walked with Christ and witnessed His death and resurrection. What is clear is that Peter affirms both the Jews and Gentiles were saved the very same way here in Acts 15:

“Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

Peter is talking about Cornelius. By Peter's admission the first Gentile converts were saved the same way and there was no distinction. At around this time Paul was yet to preach to the Gentiles and was just converted (circa Acts 10 the conversion of Cornelius and his househole--Gentiles). When Peter says "we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they" he was keeping with the same group of the Cornelius Gentile first converts. Which Peter does say to Cornelius and family in Acts 10:

36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

Peter preached Christ crucified, died and rose again. And those who "believe in Him will receive remission of sins." That is exactly the same gospel Paul proclaims in 1 Corinthians 15. And it is this the account of the conversion of Cornelius in Acts 10 which is attributed the statement "saved in the same manner as they" by grace as Peter stated. The "they" are Cornelius and his household. It is not until Peter finishes this statement that Paul and Barnabas give their testimony to the council.

So if we are to include a separate dispensation and call it the grace dispensation as opposed to Pentecost, then logically it should be Acts 10 and the vision Peter received to bring the gospel of grace to the Gentiles. For we see in Acts 15 Peter tells the group Cornelius and household were "they" who received the gospel of grace: "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.” Again "they" being in full context of the chapter are Cornelius and household. Prior to Peter's proclamation, the Judaizers presented their case; then Peter; then Paul and Barnabas.

I will add we have so many NT references the gospel is for Jew and Gentile (Greek). Jesus stated so in Luke 24 and it is no surprise Luke, a companion of Paul uses the same language to communicate One Gospel, One Spirit, One Body of Christ His Church.

The "mystery" we all seem to be hanging on was not such a mystery at all to those after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. In Luke 24 we clearly see Jesus open the disciples' minds to the scriptures testifying of Him. The mystery of the Messiah as the suffering servant in Isaiah 53 and many others which also included His resurrection and the coming of the Holy Spirit. That is the mystery, and that mystery is fully preached by all the apostles. Paul later gets it after or during his conversion. Paul calls it a mystery in his epistles because many most likely received and responded to the gospel but did not know where to find it and understand it. That is why the Bereans searched the scriptures diligently to see if these things were true. And those things "were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me” as Jesus stated in Luke 24.

Now who explained this mystery the best so that everyone in all the years and centuries following would understand? Yes it was Paul. Paul revealed the mystery to those who were already saved by the Grace of God through faith by using his epistles. That is not an admission he was the sole posessor of the mystery. That is proved by Peter in Acts 10 certainly. When Paul says he received the gospel directly from Jesus Christ, Amen he did but he is not setting himself up as presenting something new. People were already being saved by Grace.

430 posted on 11/28/2013 9:41:58 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: CynicalBear
There it’s obvious that those who had gone out from the apostles had been teaching to follow the old “rules” which they now wanted stopped. It’s obvious by all of that that like you say Paul had completed a missionary journey but there was a difference in what he was teaching thus the call for a council to straighten things out.

It is not obvious. Why? Because we NEVER see in Acts or in the epistles of Peter, John, James, Jude to do such things. Where in Acts do we see commands to follow the ceremonial law and to circumsize? We don't. Error had crept in the Jerusalem church as they incorporated more Jews especially some Pharisees. Some may have been practicing some of the old ways but none of he apostles were preaching them as a way to salvation or a requirement.

431 posted on 11/28/2013 9:46:08 PM PST by redleghunter
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