Would Someone Just Shut That Pope Up? (no, he doesn't really mean that!)

The American Conservative ^ | 12/5/2013 | Patrick J. Deneen

[steelhead_trout]

Since the release of Evangelii Gaudium there have been countless articles and commentary about the economic portions of Pope Francis’s Apostolic Exhortation. Some of the commentary has been downright bizarre, such as Rush Limbaugh denouncing the Pope as a Marxist, or Stuart Varney accusing Francis of being a neo-socialist.

Not far below the surface of many of these critiques one hears the following refrain: why can’t the Pope just go back to talking about abortion? Why can’t we return the good old days of Pope John Paul II or Benedict XVI and talk 24/7/365 about sex? Why doesn’t Francis have the decency to limit himself to talking about Jesus and gays, while avoiding the rudeness of discussing economics in mixed company, an issue about which he has no expertise or competence?

These commentators all but come and out say: we embrace Catholic teaching when it concerns itself with “faith and morals”—when it denounces abortion, opposes gay marriage, and urges personal charity. This is the Catholicism that has been acceptable in polite conversation. This is a stripped-down Catholicism that doesn’t challenge fundamental articles of economic faith.

And it turns out that this version of Catholicism is a useful tool. It is precisely this portion of Catholicism that is acceptable to those who control the right narrative because it doesn’t truly endanger what’s most important to those who steer the Republic: maintaining an economic system premised upon limitless extraction, fostering of endless desires, and creating a widening gap between winners and losers that is papered over by mantras about favoring equality of opportunity.

[steelhead_trout]

There's more to Catholicism than concern over what Ralph Nader calls "gonadal politics."

[Fishtalk]

I just read a book “Rediscovering Catholicism”....given to me by my church and I loved it.
“Rediscover Catholicism” by Matthew Kelly-Free Book Changes My Life Forever. Guest Writer Michelle Defines Love.

http://patfish.blogspot.com/2013/11/rediscover-catholicism-by-matthew-kelly.html

So here I am all juiced and filled with the zeal of an evangenlizer and the pope’s words leave me sapped.

I don’t care what this op-ed writer says, the pope SHOULD stick to things spiritual and for the soul. If nothing else, capitalism might not be perfect but it’s killed no one.

Communism? Nazism? These idealologies killed millions. Socialism has pulled the life and verve out of humans’ souls for many years.

Now I don’t know what to do. I am demoralized.

I will never like what Pope Francis said in his diatribe and no one can make me.

I got eyeballs and I read all 50,000 of his silly words.

Now start attacking ME as is often the norm when someone....heh, stands up to power.

[Biggirl]

Got to remember that it was the “Francisian spirituality” side of Pope Francis that he was speaking.

[GOP_Party_Animal]

[Non-economic papal exhortation] doesn’t truly endanger what’s most important to those who steer the Republic: maintaining an economic system premised upon limitless extraction, fostering of endless desires, and creating a widening gap between winners and losers that is papered over by mantras about favoring equality of opportunity.

Wow, talk about a straw-man argument! So if we oppose top-down central planning, we must be for gluttony and subjugation of the poor. Riiiight....

[arthurus]

If we had actual free market capitalism working in an actually Christian based culture, I don’t think we would hear any of these things from Francis or we would not take them as aimed at us. Capitalism, as it is practiced now i.e. crony capitalism or mercantilism-fascism, is more disruptive of traditional human relations every day.

[Arthur McGowan]

The best thing in this article is the link to the article by Hadley Arkes.

[Mr. Jeeves]

If we had actual free market capitalism working in an actually Christian based culture...

You still would hear the Marxism. To them, Christian Capitalism is the British East India Company. it's the Opium Wars. It's a mustachioed Cockney foreman beating the "darkies" when they fail to meet a quota. It's a robber baron impoverishing coal miners for no reason other than personal greed (his company would have magically sprung up by itself without him...) It's all about breaking unions. It's today's Wall Street - though they fail to notice that the current President is owned and operated by that same Wall Street.

A complete absence of economic education leads directly to feelings of entitlement, easily manipulated by priests and politicians alike. Where is the benefit for the hierarchy in an independent, free-thinking populace?

[Alex Murphy]

Not far below the surface of many of these critiques one hears the following refrain: why can’t the Pope just go back to talking about abortion? Why can’t we return the good old days of Pope John Paul II or Benedict XVI and talk 24/7/365 about sex? Why doesn’t Francis have the decency to limit himself to talking about Jesus and gays, while avoiding the rudeness of discussing economics in mixed company, an issue about which he has no expertise or competence? These commentators all but come and out say: we embrace Catholic teaching when it concerns itself with “faith and morals”—when it denounces abortion, opposes gay marriage, and urges personal charity. This is the Catholicism that has been acceptable in polite conversation. This is a stripped-down Catholicism that doesn’t challenge fundamental articles of economic faith.

The most "fundamental articles of economic faith" are these, and you rarely hear them talked about in Catholic circles:

“You shall not steal."
-- Exodus 20:15

"You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”
-- Exodus 20:17

[cripplecreek]

If we had actual free market capitalism working in an actually Christian based culture, I don’t think we would hear any of these things from Francis or we would not take them as aimed at us. Capitalism, as it is practiced now i.e. crony capitalism or mercantilism-fascism, is more disruptive of traditional human relations every day.

Exactly.

A true free market holds no bias aside from favoring the seller who provides the goods people want at a price they can afford. That is fair to all.

[Mouton]

Just be guided by this: pope is infallible on matters of faith, not secular matters.

[The Sons of Liberty]

He’s from Argentina, right? Isn’t that where the Nazis went to after WWII? Maybe he’s just used to that congregation.

[Fishtalk]

Just be guided by this: pope is infallible on matters of faith, not secular matters.

Your statement is correct and it gives me some comfort.

What DOESN'T give me comfort is that the very FIRST thing Obama did yesterday was quote the Pope. The very FIRST chance he had and we had to know this was going to happen.

Pope Francis, who I don't think is the brightest bulb in the lamp and I'll never know why they replaced Benedict for him in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, blew it with that nonsense he wrote

For the record, I stopped my parish priest Weds night and told him I was not happy with the pope's words.

He looked at me a long time and said nothing.

Then he smiled and said that he had no input in it, that no one even asked him.

Sure Father Jim was trying to be clever, to defuse my ire, but I had the distinct impression that he too was not pleased with the pope's stupid words and that I was not the FIRST Catholic to complain about it.

Ah Pope Francis, you need to call home and cancel your newspapers....they are piling up on your front door.

And my Bishop's name is Francis and I USED to be proud of that.

[Servant of the Cross]

Now I don’t know what to do. I am demoralized.

Thanks for your honesty. You are not alone. I encourage you to seek additional insight from Matthew Kelly's "Rediscovering Catholicism". You are correct, it is an awesome book and describes well the "genius of Catholicism". The answers of hope are in there. A few additional links that provide me hope regarding this Apostolic Exhortation (which unfortunately is being scrutinized as if it were solely an "Occupy Whatever position paper for a G-8 summit") ... and a broader perspective:

Source: Pope Francis Likely to Offer 'Clarification' to Distance Himself from 'Liberation Theology'

IMHO, the evils of communism, socialism, 'the State ... will be a point of emphasis in this coming 'clarification'.

Evangelii Gaudium (The Joy of The Gospel) is "a clarion call for a decisive shift in the Catholic Church's self-understanding, in full continuity with the teaching of the Second Vatican Council, Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI." However, it has unfortunately been subjected to being "celebrated, or lamented, as if it were an Occupy Whatever position paper for a G-8 summit."

Shortly after making the aforementioned comments, Rush said that he was being inundated with e-mails from Catholics who said that the WaPo took Pope Francis's words out of context and Rush ended the segment by saying something along the lines of, "I don't know what to believe" or something along those lines.

If anyone feels offended by my words, I would respond that I speak them with affection and with the best of intentions, quite apart from any personal interest or political ideology. My words are not those of a foe or an opponent. I am interested only in helping those who are in thrall to an individualistic, indifferent and self-centred mentality to be freed from those unworthy chains and to attain a way of living and thinking which is more humane, noble and fruitful, and which will bring dignity to their presence on this earth. [208]

I believe that Pope Francis believes this is "things spiritual". He wrote this for any who are "individualistic, indifferent or self-centered" ... and who are complacent about it ... in order that they may "be freed from those unworthy chains". It is Advent season. The economic teaching of this apostolic exhortation is meant for the 'Scrooges' of the world who are currently complacently comfortable in their self-centeredness.

[steelhead_trout]

“It’s today’s Wall Street - though they fail to notice that the current President is owned and operated by that same Wall Street.”

---

Exactamundo!!

[arthurus]

“To them...” Is not Christian based free market. It would not look like such to the Pope or the rest of “them” were it a Christian based free market economy. Some bishops and some Catholic writers have had wrong headed opinions about things and written about them. They are not the mind of the Church. There are Catholics who think they are Progressives or rather Progressives and Communists and other vacuous liberals who think they are Catholics. They do not speak for the Church. And when the Pope speaks on Economics he is decidedly not speaking ex cathedra.

[Irenic]

What bothered me most about what the pope said is that — “unequal distribution of wealth inevitably leads to violence”.

Would violence disappear if everyone had equal wealth? Is it OK to be violent because you are not happy that things are not equal? So what would help violence most? Would not the poor who become violent for lack of wealth also be worshiping money? What would help this problem most? More money? I don’t think so.

[MrB]

I really wonder what they mean by “subjugation”.

To me, it seems that they view opposing their use of the State as an instrument of plunder is “subjugation”.

If anything, “the poor” would be invited to join in an add their efforts to the enrichment of the society while making their own lives better in the process. Enlightened self-interest makes everyone better off.

[MrB]

Really hard to reconcile collectivism with “thou shall not covet” and “thou shall not steal”.

[MrB]

This is an underlying belief and assumption of the left -

that if we don’t use force to equalize wealth,
the have-nots will turn violent.

In truth, it’s nearly always some opportunistic power mad evil person that exploits the grievances of the have-nots and turns them violent against civilized society.

[gusty]

“The division of the fullness of Catholic thought in America has rendered it largely tractable in a nation that was always suspicious of Catholics. Lockean America tamed Catholicism not by oppression (as Locke thought would be necessary), but by dividing and conquering—permitting and even encouraging promotion of its sexual teachings, albeit shorn of its broader social teachings.”

The author of this article attacks the very basis of the Founders. The idea of the United States is rendered illegitimate in the eyes of the author’s world view. A world view alien to Madison, Hamilton, and Jay. Instead of soothing any suspicions that those who support the ideology of the Founders have, this apologia for the Pope’s latest pronouncements just blows the lid off of it. I personally want to live in a United States based on thoughts of the Founders, not some 19th Century Papal States.