Posted on 12/20/2013 2:45:07 PM PST by DouglasKC
I did not know that...
Fair enough.
Actually this is correct ...Jesus was not born in a stable
I too......have always felt (since the birth was during Sukkot) that He was probably born in a sukkah and since the early translators were not too familiar with Hebrew terminology....they thought "food shelf" (all sukkahs have them) meant "manger". This would be more understandable to 16th century English readers than a sukkah "food shelf".
Acts 17:11shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
I especially liked why they just didn't stay with Elizabeth since they lived relatively close.
If the word actually means guest room instead of inn it makes sense.
“What gph posts (and spams) is inaccurate at best and malicious at worst...”
The UCG is a known religious cult. The article is fully footnoted with sources from the church itself. All I was doing was providing a good disclaimer, that is all. If there is anything inaccurate about UCG’s teachings presented there, you’re free to dispute them. It cannot be done, however.
Freepers ought to be aware that they’re reading material from a church that teaches that they aren’t true Christians. Helps keep the site from getting hits.
Had to have a look. :)
Actually, word on the street is that Joseph was a cigarette smoker...which might explain the difficulty in obtaining accomodations.
I had an old pastor (Very Conservative) that thought the same way as in the article (Joseph was a responsible man, would have made arrangements with family ahead of time, etc.) My pastor pointed out that in the winter one room of the house might be set up to have animals inside. Protect the animals and help heat the home. Maybe the manger was in that room. OR - perhaps the manger was brought in to the main room, kitchen or wherever the fire was. Raised up(?) off the floor to keep it warmer. Dump some hay in it for padding. Etc.
I’ reminded of an old photo of me as a baby. In some old motel room. I’m sleeping in the second drawer that is pulled 3/4 of the way out of the dresser, padded with blankets all the way around.
But as others have posted, not sure it matters a whole bunch. The idea of humble beginnings and that it was used as a sign for the shepherds is important.
Plus, it allowed the THREE wise men to place there gifts under the manger, which we symbolize by placing our gifts under the tree. !
(Hmm. Joking about both the “three” and the wise men being there around the time of birth. BUT - I just thought of my made-up, funny(?) comment about gifts under the tree. I wonder if that MIGHT be symbolic of “gifts under the manger”?)
The Wise Men arrived years later.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
This is a pretty good study. The word translated "guest rooom" here is:
kataluma
Thayer Definition:
1) an inn, lodging place
2) an eating room, dining room
But look at Luke 10:34 and the story of the good Samaritan:
Luk 10:34 So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
In this case the word translated "inn" is:
pandocheion
Thayer Definition:
1) an inn, a public house for the reception of strangers
So there's a difference between a private place for guests and public place for guests. I had always assumed that that the "Inn" that Mary and Joseph was turned out of was public.
It makes much more sense that they stayed in someone's home in the "animal" part and not outside in a barn as is often suggested.
“2) an eating room, dining room”
Interesting, see my thoughts at post 31 that the manger (to be used as a cradle) was placed in a warm (warmest?) place in the home. Not sure how mangers were built back then though. If it was a half-ton of carved-out rock, it probably wasn’t drug into the dining room!
I had to look this up but you're right.
Mat 2:1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem,
They came after Jesus was born.
Mat 2:11 And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrr
He's in a house and is now a young child and not a babe...
Mat 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was deceived by the wise men, was exceedingly angry; and he sent forth and put to death all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men.
As much as two years old apparently.
Good point...
A stupid article that adds nothing and quibbles over semantics.
Thank you for clarifying that you were making a joke.
I think it did a good job making it's points based on scripture, word usage and middle eastern custom and traditions. If it were a case being built on circumstantial evidence it would be pretty strong. What the traditional view has going for it is that mostly it's a strong tradition.
A stupid article that adds nothing and quibbles over semantics.
I think it fleshes out the origins of Jesus and makes him more real but I see where you're coming from.
I was trying to be funny with regards to the wise men. Around this time at my old church for Sunday school with the 5th graders and above we would read passages and then have a “quiz”.
How many wise men? (No number is given. We always think of three guys to go along with the three gifts. Probably had a huge caravan to support the wise men.)
Wise men came years later (like you wrote - Herod said to kill two years and younger.)
I forget the other things, but there were about 15 questions like that. It was a good way to separate out what the Bible states and what we have come up with over the years in songs, movies, traditions, etc.
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