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Locked on 12/26/2013 5:28:25 AM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish behavior |
Posted on 12/22/2013 7:28:20 AM PST by DouglasKC
“The Christian faith has not been tried and found wanting. It has rather been found difficult and left untried.” —Chesterton
I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending.The story of Jesus is either the greatest event in history or the cruelest hoax. If it is a hoax, then the whole of the Christian message crumbles together with the hopes of those multitudes of lives built on his name. The apostle Paul said:
“And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up; if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.” -1 Corinthians 15:14-19 (NKJV)
But if the story is true, then this world has been hit with extraordinary news of earth-shaking consequences. Have you taken the trouble to decide which it is?
In a matter this weighty, it is in your interest to explore the truth or falsity of Christ's claims. Amazingly however, many people who don't believe have never bothered to explore the evidence in support of Jesus,[1] but to the contrary, often run away from it. At the same time, many Christians themselves are not sure, at bottom, whether the claims of their faith are solid. Is the Christian claim a hoax? Is it just wishful thinking? Or is it actually true?
(Excerpt) Read more at christiananswers.net ...
Also see my post 418 concerning that word. There is a subtle difference that people don’t understand. If they don’t understand that difference they will try to use the transliteration of the word as a gotcha.
Those who deny who Jesus is are denying Him.
Why would Jesus be called a “Father”/ Because he was a life giver as he said his Father had life in Himself he had granted Jesus to have life in himself. (John 5:21,26)
The words you cite are Hebrew not Greek.
I think some of the posters are using the new century Bible which is a dynamic equivalent. I think you mostly use literal translations.
I’ll point this out again as I did a long time ago on the Mormon threads and earlier today on a different one.
Mormons also like to claim that Jesus is not God Himself but rather a separate entity from God the Father.
However, following that line of reasoning, that Jesus is not God Himself, forces the one believing into the position of breaking the first commandment found in Exodus 20.... I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me.
If Jesus is not God Incarnate, but rather a separate entity, them to claim that to get to the Father through Jesus Christ puts another god between, or before, the Father.
If Jesus IS God Incarnate, God with us, then the first commandment remains unbroken.
So those who deny the deity of Christ are in effect demanding and teaching others to break the first commandment.
That’s fine if you don’t want to debate. Just be aware when you make positions on a forum, people will challenge those positions and usually expect the courtesy of a mature response even if it is “I choose not to respond.”
I use a variety of translations, some by Catholic publishers, some by Protestant publishers and sometimes I simply paraphrase but no one translation in the majority of quotes.
No amount of proof will satisfy “died in the wool” Trinitarians.
The scripture says no man has seen God. Jesus own Apostle said it. Therefore,it is impossible for Jesus to have been God as he was seen by many.
We are dealing with brainwashed people who absolutely refuse to see.
Please do not lie about me...you know very sell that I have indeed debated openly. You do not control the debate though. If you are going to ask non pertinent question to tbd very simple debate and fact that the son is simply that , the son and our savior...then there is no need for me to answer those questions. You are the one acting super pious and not mature. Thank you.
John 14:8-11 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? >U?Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
I don't know what you need beyond the words of Jesus Himself stating that He is the Father.
He is not saying he is the father..you entirely miss his meaning. Also, sadly you types base your whole faith of Jesus being God on these words that also have many more that show quite the contrary...you appeal to words that fit what you want, yet do indeed miss the very meaning of them.
You did not address the very clear and simple text that nobody has actually seen God. Period. When people with faith saw Jesus, they saw the father’s perfect will...obviously.
I disagree. If, by your claim, Jesus Christ is not truly God and truly man, then please explain His Nature as being the Son of God and Son of man.
John 14:7-9 KJV
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
You gotta stop coming on these threads speaking logic:)
John 14:7-9 KJV
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
I can see you are a bit upset. I meant no disrespect. As I stated in a previous thread these forums are full contact sports. Such is debate.
If Jesus is not truly God, then who is He?
He would be a created being, no?
Yeah, I know.
Making sense ruins all the fun.
So they don't mean what they say? They mean what? What YOU say they mean?
A very logical and valid question, which you will not get an answer to. Trust me:)
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