Posted on 01/15/2014 7:05:50 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
Satan, in the Garden of Eden, speaking to Eve (through the serpent) said in Genesis 3:1-5 that if Eve would stretch forth her hand and eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that she would not die, but would become as gods knowing good and evil.
Satan essentially proffered the idea to Eve that:
1.) God wanted to keep something from her (as well as Adam) and 2.) that God had lied to her when He told her that she would die.
Essentially, Satan said to Eve that God wanted to keep His thumb on Adam and Eve, and had constructed a lie to guarantee this and thereby keep them from eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. As well, Satan also said that eating of this tree would get them out from under God's thumb by making them as gods knowing good and evil.
The fallacy in Satan's argument is that if God indeed wanted to keep His thumb on Adam and Eve all God would have to have done is never make a tree of knowledge of good and evil in the first place.
If Eve had retorted to the serpent that no tree made in the first place means no ability to get what the serpent said they could get -- and God need only to make no tree in the first place to keep this from happening. Thus Eve could then say to the serpent (Satan) that he was a liar and that there was another reason for this particular tree (albeit unknown to her at that time).
As well, in the Book of Job, chapter 1 and 2: if Satan wanted to find out if Job would indeed curse God to His face (if God would stretch forth His hand against Job), all Satan would have to have done is say the following:
“God, you know everything; We all know this. Please tell me and the rest of all beings in the universe if Job will indeed curse you to your face if you do x, y and z to him.”
I don’t believe in Satan, as it undermines monotheism, but that God Himself was the deceptive agent in The Garden at that time when human beings learned to abstract good and evil from within their own minds.
God should have warned Eve about satan
And that was so Eve could see the serpent for what he was. Evil.
Without that ability, the lord of lies could easily have said that he was of God and she must do as he says. She never would have known the difference.
The Lord our God knew this and thus did he create the Tree of Knowledge.
The existence of Satan doesn’t undermine monotheism any more than the existence of angels does. Satan is a created being that was once an angel, but fell at some point in the distant past.
The problem within your argument is that in Job chapter 1 and 2 is Satan appears before God in the presence of the sons of God. It says in those chapters that there was a particular time long ago when the sons of God appeared before the Lord (God) in heaven and Satan came also WITH THEM (the sons of God).
Thus, three distinct sets. 1.) God, whom the 2.) sons of God (angels) appeared before, with 3.) Satan in their (the sons of God) midst.
Thus, Satan is a separate, created being, one apart from God.
Per the Bible, God is omniscient and omnipresent. He knew that Adam and Eve would eat from the tree when he created them. Per Genesis, the fall of Man was a push.
I find it interesting that Timothy 6:10 says “For the love of money is the root of all evil”, but in Genesis the original sin was hypothesis testing.
Satan asked Eve, “Hath God said...?” Thus causing her to question God. She fell for it. Everyday the MSM asks the same question. “Hath God said?” Brothers and sisters in Christ, don’t fall for it.
If Satan had said that He was of God and that she must do as he says, all she would have to have done is say to him the following:
“God will show up “in the cool of the evening” to walk with Adam as He always does. We will wait until then to ask God what he has to say about what you (the serpent) are saying. Then we will know if there is any difference in what you and He are saying and have said.”
And then she could turn back to her original point: “If what you (the serpent) is saying is true, then why did God create the tree in the first place?”
Why?
He gave her and Adam (hypothetically speaking) the ability to put Satan’s (the serpent’s) suggestions to the test, per the method outlined in the OP.
well I guess you don’t believe in the Bible because Lucifer was explicitly thrown out of heaven with his minions for making war on God
You have a very twisted understanding of the Bible.
She could have said:
“Why are you asking if God hath said? God did say this. Do you want to ask Him yourself? Wait and ask. Secondly, now why would God make a tree that does what He says it can do says and then want to keep me from it if all He had to do in the first place is never make that tree at all?”
He did…. she was told what behavior to avoid. Free will came into play….
it actually reinforces monotheism
Exactly. That is why Darwinism was so destructive - Satan knew one of his greatest weapons was to lie to humanity that God's Word was not really true. If you can be convinced that part of it is untrue, then whole of God's Word is undermined.
Does “free will” ring a bell? That is the choice presented to all of us.
Did God know that the created angel, Lucifer, would fall long before all of this - and that he would later then lie to Adam and Eve in the garden?
1.) Did God decide to cause some to be saved and some to go to hell, or 2.) did God decide to create a universe in which all people would each be given a way of salvation, and then bring into existence each person’s decision to accept or reject salvation when He created this universe?
Is it 1.) Calvinism, Arminianism, or 2.) the above - a fusion of both?
So she had the free will to say to Satan what I presented in post #12. BTW, excuse the additional “says” in the latter part of #12.
God did not and could not lie. Satan did, by virtue of telling a half-truth. Satan lies and is the father of lies...................
Read it again, it’s all kinds of evil. Not all evil.
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