[Faith Presses On]

That is the problem with this argument right from the beginning. It just sets up a straw man. It assumes that the church as a human institution is Christ’s bride, rather than it being all those who truly believe. In Revelation, Jesus had different messages for different churches, and even where He found fault in the church overall, including that it allowed false doctrines which Jesus hates, He found believers in it who had remained faithful.

Only the Spirit of God can totally know a church, but as Jesus’ messages to the churches in Revelation show us, we can know the doctrines of churches and test whether or not they agree with God’s Word.

I was raised a Lutheran in a very Catholic area, and have a Catholic convert parent. I’ve been open to the Catholic Church because I only wanted to follow Lord Jesus in truth. Over a long time I’ve seen that I can’t accept much of essential Catholic doctrine because it twists or ignores God’s Word. For example, it calls Mary sinless and says it was necessary, for Jesus to be without sin (even though it was the Holy Spirit who placed Him in Mary’s womb, somehow) , for Mary to have been conceived without sin. It doesn’t explain how Mary, though, could be without sin if *her* parents weren’t. The Catholic belief on Jesus and Mary requires a sinless lineage going back to Adam and Eve themselves, and neither were sinless.

[dartuser]

In Revelation, Jesus had different messages for different churches

Isn't curious that if the church at Rome was primary in ANY way ... that Rome was not one of the seven churches addressed by Christ in Revelation 2 and 3.

[matthewrobertolson]

Over a long time I’ve seen that I can’t accept much of essential Catholic doctrine because it twists or ignores God’s Word. For example, it calls Mary sinless and says it was necessary, for Jesus to be without sin (even though it was the Holy Spirit who placed Him in Mary’s womb, somehow) , for Mary to have been conceived without sin. It doesn’t explain how Mary, though, could be without sin if *her* parents weren’t. The Catholic belief on Jesus and Mary requires a sinless lineage going back to Adam and Eve themselves, and neither were sinless.

Unless one can find an instance of her sinning, they should assume sinlessness automatically. But anyway, she is the New Ark of the Covenant. The Ark of the Covenant, in case you are unfamiliar with it, held objects like the Ten Commandments. It was so precious that, in 2 Samuel 6, God strikes down Uzzah, who mishandled it. Mary held God-incarnate. Imagine how much more precious she must be!

And Mary's sinlessness does not require a special lineage. It only requires the active intervention of God.