Posted on 03/19/2014 8:19:20 PM PDT by ealgeone
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION
PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
ARTICLE 9 "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"
Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church
963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503
Jeremiah 44:17-25, where Jeremiah is giving the people the word of the Lord which God has spoken to him. He reminds the people that their disobedience and idolatry has caused the Lord to be very angry with them and to punish them with calamity. Jeremiah warns them that greater punishments await them if they do not repent. They reply that they have no intentions of giving up their worship of idols, promising to continue pouring out drink offerings to the queen of heaven, Ashtoreth, and even going so far as to credit her with the peace and prosperity they once enjoyed because of God’s grace and mercy.
I’m referring mostly to the last sentence above where it appears that, even though that “queen of heaven” was an idol for the people and not Jesus’ earthly mother, it would appear to me that our God does not like us to credit ANYONE but Himself for any blessings we have been given. Just a way of looking at it for someone who is not Catholic.
I don’t know why because Jesus Christ is VERY approachable. I have felt his presence more than once, and wonderful it was.
Corinthians is used by Calvinists in support of their doctrine of Predestination, and the word itself actually appears in 1 Corinthians 2:7. Being born sinless in order to give birth to Jesus Christ is what, if not the same? Yet your church rejects what was taught by the Apostle Paul on the one hand, yet aggrandizes it beyond recognition on the other. Internally inconsistent theology.
Predestination, taken in its widest meaning, is every Divine decree by which God, owing to His infallible prescience of the future, has appointed and ordained from eternity all events occurring in time, especially those which directly proceed from, or at least are influenced by, man's free will.What you have been espousing is more akin to predetermination wherein God has fixed what will be... down to our very sins. That isn't the case since God wills that none sin and none be lost. Predestination is an understanding that God knows all times and all places and it all fits His plan in Divine Wisdom. Predetermination supposes that God wanted us to fall from grace as though He were writing the plot of the book and we are merely characters acting out (even in our sin) His will.
There is no free will in predetermination. There is in predestination.
I don’t go by extra-biblical sources. If one believes in the God of the Holy Bible then one should consider whether or not he/she believes God would or would not make sure that His people would find within it everything essential for salvation and knowledge of Him. If they think it’s not so...then go ahead and believe in the Immaculate conception and whatever else the church has to say.
I’m not denying there are mysteries of God that we cannot know in this body. But for a church organization to decide what one of the mysteries is and present it as “fact” it’s as if they believe they have been given special knowledge, but offer no proof, no basis, nothing in which they can point to in God’s word itself. How is this different than any other modern day “prophet” or cult?
You mistake my taking note of one doctrine versus another for advocation. I do not advocate predestination in the manner of Calvinists although I understand the scriptural basis upon which the belief was based and accept Calvinists as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
Christ nor the apostles or the disciples taught what you teach.
No. It doesn’t. I have enough trouble keeping myself on the right path.
All this does is poke a stick in the eyes of your Catholic brothers and sisters.
So this is an attack on all prayer to Saints or the departed? And the Virgin Mary is a Golden Idol? Just Oy.
It’s based on the Gospel of John - Jesus gave Mary to John as his mother. Mary was the mother of the Church. Jesus is the Body of the Church after all.
It’s based on the Gospel of John -
Jesus gave Mary to John as his mother. AGREE
Mary was the mother of the Church. DISAGREE...SHE is the mother of Christ.
Jesus is the Body of the Church after all.
This “logic” is a bit of a stretch.
“Catholics believe Jesus is unapproachable”
BUUZZZZERRRRR. WRONG!
Next question for 200 please.
Yes...I’ve read it and even taught lessons from the passage.
I find nothing in the passage that gives to Mary the prominence given to her by the Catholic Church. I find none of the “assumptions” made about her by the Catholic Church in the Bible.
I do find that we are to love the Lord God with all our heart, soul, mind and body however. No one else are we to give the honor and glory too. Paul didn’t. Peter didn’t. The early church didn’t.
“My understanding is that is not what they do and I had this conversation many times over the years with Catholics.”
How dare you take their word for who they worship. That’s just not how these things are done.
FReegards
LOL ... He's so unapproachable that we receive him -- body, blood, soul, and divinity -- on our tongues under the form of bread, some of us every day. Don't you wish you had a Jesus as "unapproachable" as ours?
No, that’s “Yehovah” talking about Ashtoreth. John chapter one records what He had to say about Mary. I suggest you read it.
Well said, FRiend. I feel it during the sacrament of Reconciliation, or when I look deep into my grandson's eyes, to cite just two examples.
IMHO, it's up to us to go to Him. If there's one thing I've learned, Catholicism is not a spectator sport...you need to be an active participant.
Agreed. So why do Protestants cling to beliefs that are provably contrary to scripture and have no pedigree before the 12th Century, like Luther's warped concept of grace as a merely extrinsic and forensic concept?
Agreed. So why do Protestants cling to beliefs that are provably contrary to scripture and have no pedigree before the 12th Century, like Luther's warped concept of grace as a merely extrinsic and forensic concept?
Nobody's doing that. Recognizing that God blessed Mary in unique ways certainly doesn't do that.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.