Posted on 03/20/2014 1:46:53 PM PDT by smoothsailing
Nice try, but your (revealing) taunting will not get you anywhere. You justified the no by showing what you really want here and with such instant condescension.
I don’t know who is responsible for what is ‘out there’.
Who has ears to hear....
Well dear brother, there is a whole LOT that we don't know, and possibly there are things are are impossible for us to know, in principle....
At least from this side of the grave.
Thank you so much for writing! Please keep pinging me when you put up new stuff.
So be it.
Food for thought:
Consider what it means literally if "and the earth became without form".
Witness to 'became', is Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; HE hath established it, He created it NOT in vain. He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD;
and there is none else.
The words "in vain" (#8414 תֹּהוּ tohuw {to'-hoo}) used in Isaiah are the very same Hebrew word as used in Genesis 1:2 "without form".
From an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain:—confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness. —Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)
http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/8414.html
It is a very interesting study to seek out all the places wherein this specific Hebrew word were used.
IF God did not create a wasteland then it had to become a wasteland. This earth is filled with the evidence of a great whole earth catastrophe wherein all life was destroyed. Jeremiah 4: 22-27 uses this same Hebrew word תֹּהוּ tohuw in describing what happened to earth.
Consider how long would it take for 'sunlight' to penetrate earth's atmosphere after more than one supervolcano? I keep reading about the evidence left from the 'Yellowstone's volcano.
Then of course there is the discovery of the asteroid crater on the Yucatan Peninsula.
Interesting!
"Word studies" can be enjoyable, and, even, enlightening -- but, doing so without the all-important consideration of context is, very often, a path to fruitless and erroneous speculation. (Upon such boggy ground are cults and/or false doctrine often built...)
As a scientist, I usually try to avoid such "self-gratifying, self-referential, open-loop, myopic navel-gazing"... '-)
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In this case, we are talking about the premier ("first rattle out of the box") revelation of God and His works -- to His creatures, mankind -- before mankind -- or, even the planet where mankind dwells -- existed. There is no precedent (no prior case that can be cited as context).
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As our colleagues, betty boop and Alamo-Girl, frequently state, there are five "channels" through which God reveals and has revealed Himself and His works and plans:
Significantly, the above list does not include even the cleverest machinations of our intellects -- when not guided and informed by one or more of the "official channels"...
But, foremost, whenever we conclude anything that appears to place the input via one of the above "channels" in conflict with inputs via any (or all) of the others, then, it is we, our data, and/or our interpretations that are in error -- always.
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In this specific instance, by pursuing the simple term, "תֹּהוּ tohuw {to'-hoo}" throughout Scripture, into various, unrelated, contexts, you ran the risk of reaching a conclusion that is in conflict not only with the original use of the term ("A."), but in conflict with ("D".) -- physical evidence.
Even worse than working out of context, you made the egregious error of working with only a fraction of the original term. The actual term used in Genesis 1 is not"תֹּהוּ tohuw, but, rather, "Tohu wa bohu (תֹ֙הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ)". Every other use of that complete, exact term in Scripture is, simply, a citation of -- or reference back to -- its original and unique use in Genesis 1.
If I were to use the term, "Tohu wa bohu (תֹ֙הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ)" today, I probably would employ it to describe the energetic, isotropic expansion of the reaction products of a chemical or nuclear explosion. In the creation context, I would describe it as the isotropic (formless) expansion of the universe (matter, energy, spacetime) into the "void" that preceded its existence.
FYI -- I have been working on a dynamic, graphical presentation of the "timeline of creation" -- with "science says" above the timeline and "Scripture says" below the line. It appears to me that, in coming up with your "creation / destruction/ re-creation premise, that you "jumped all over the place" on that timeline.
You discuss the time before T=3000K ,(at ~380KYears ET) ("Let there be light") then you jump to destruction of all life, then to volcanoes, and finally come to rest at the Chicxulub mega-crater (with its widespread "K-T boundary" deposits of iridium). Pick a time and stick with it.
Another problem you have is that you are confusing creation (from nothing) with formation (development). There was a single creative act, the rest of cosmology is development.
EXAMPLE: God formed the body of Adam from the (already created -- and developed) "dust of the ground".
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You seem to derive enjoyment from exercising your considerable mental gifts, and then showcasing the results here on FR. That's fine -- many other folks here on FR do the same -- and...mea culpa...
This time, you got the exercise -- but missed the mark of making a cogent statement. No problem; "do-overs" are free here on FR... '-)
Next time, you will be more successful if you exercise those all-importent principles of "Context", "Completeness" and "Consistency".
I look forward to your next "thoughts"...
Indeed, God's revelations in the five named methods are always consistent. And of course I strongly agree that the context of Genesis is "in the beginning" - ex nihilio. Which is to say, from no thing.
Funny thing is that the creation account has nothing even close to a big bang. - Not even a little bang.
The Hebrew scriptures say that the spirit of Yehova expanded the cosmos in much the same way that an iron worker would turn a ball of steel into a shield; a slow steady process IOW.
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There is no "bang" in the current description of creation. The "Big Bang" was a popularized, semi-joking, semi-sarcastic (probably media and YEC-driven) appelation.
What was reported was that the universe apparently underwent an extremely rapid "inflation period" following its beginning as a "singularity" -- and then, well before the temperature dropped to 3000 degrees K, (and photons were freed to travel) (at ~380,000 years elapsed time) it settled down to a fairly uniform, steady expansion.
Only recently has it been reported that (under the influence of "dark" matter and energy) the expansion now appears to be accelerating...
And, -- before the "Yabbuts" start -- let me state that the above is in no way in disagreement with the description of those same events in Genesis 1.
Read my # 130.
IMO, it is perilous and foolhardy to confine your understanding to only one of those "channels" of God's revelation of Himself and His works. And it is even more foolhardy to "cling to" one and discount or exclude -- or worse, disparage -- revelations via any of the others...
You do not have to convince me. Parable of the sower, Matthew 13 is generally ignored. I make no judgment of the condition of the soil. Merely plant seeds of truth and only the Heavenly Father controls the germination. I get no 'self-gratification', and certainly have no 'self-referential' purpose. I am but a mere commoner that loves the Heavenly Father, (John 1:1 by extension His WORD) in His Only Begotten Son.
What has taken place in the ages that WAS is all very interesting, but, it is what is yet to come I prepare my mind, that be IF my flesh body is still alive on God's green earth.
Scientists and secular philosophers keep scaling the high mountain. If they ever get to the summit they will find a bunch of theologians.
I, too, am wondering whether this old fleshly container will last to the end. Hence my efforts to finish the large task to which my hand has been set...
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