You have yet to show any evidence that Israel was referenced as Christ's mother, natural or spiritual. Christ, on the other hand, compared the sorrow of his disciples (over His crucifixion) to a "woman travailing in birth:"
"Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you." (John 16:19-22 KJV)
LOL! Now compare that statement by Christ with this one (also by Christ):
"And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne." (Rev 12:2-5 KJV)
Who was that child, and who was the woman that brought forth the child? We know from verse 5 that the child was Christ. And we know from the following verse that the woman was the Church:
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Rev 12:17 KJV)
That remnant were the remaining children of Abraham (now that Christ had ascended): those by faith in Christ:
"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal 3:29 KJV)
But Christ was also a child of Abraham:
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." (Gal 3:16 KJV)
But once Christ was crucified, and ascended to God and his throne, the devil (through his children, the non-believing Jews) made war with Christ's followers, as indicated in Rev 12:17.
Putting it all together, the great woman of Revelation 12 spiritually "gave birth" to Christ, and she spiritually "gave birth" to followers of Christ. That could only be the woman in Galatians 4:26, which is New Jerusalem, which is the Church:
"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." (Gal 4:26 KJV)
The fact that you don’t happen to agree makes it no less valid. If you can come up with anything to support your position, other than your opinion (for example, some scriptural references,) I will be glad to take a look.
-:)
Philip
You mean like the false doctrine that teaches when Christ judges us according to our works it is a bad thing?
>>>In scripture, everything is in its place. Romans 5:14 says that Adam is a figure of him that was to come. We must have something in common between Adam and Christ for the word figure to be used. <<<
That verse (Romans 5:14) was the only scriptural reference in your entire discourse; and since I prefer to debate the scriptures, I will respond to that. This is the verse in context.
"12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 5:14-21 KJV)
That is typical "Paul." It is similar to his theme of 1st Corinthians 15. In fact, his theme in these matters, in general, is that Christ, our Lord, came in the flesh to destroy the works of Satan, who took control of the world because of Adam's sin. It is Satan who generates the violence, thefts, slanders and evils generally; and it is he who endeavours to sidetrack us from thinking about the things that are good, such as loving one's neighbour (which fulfills all the law.)
>>>If Joseph Smith had known about the structure of scripture he might not have written the Book of Mormon. <<<
If Christians understood that the New Testament explains the Old (and not the other way around,) and that all the Old Testament prophecy has been fulfilled, there wouldn't be a single rapture cult.
Think how great that would be: if all the rapture cults simply disintegrated. All those in bondage to the thought of being taken away from all the evil that is to come, would suddenly be free to do the Lord's work, such as carrying out the Great Commission. Maybe then they would realize the fallacy of their beliefs, and understand this warning:
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Philip