Posted on 06/15/2014 4:12:26 AM PDT by markomalley
There was the man inspired by the written words of Pope Francis. There was the agnostic professor. And there was the widow of a Baptist preacher.
All of them Tennesseans, and all of them recent converts to one of the world's oldest Christian faiths.
In the South, Catholicism is growing. The Diocese of Knoxville was recently ranked among the top 10 in the nation for its rate of adult conversions.
All Southeast Tennessee Catholic parishes, including Chattanooga's, fall under the umbrella of Knoxville's diocese, one of 195 in the United States. A diocese is a geographic collection of parishes grouped together under the governance of a bishop. And many of the dioceses producing the most converts to the church are right here in the South, according to a recent study by Georgetown University's Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate.
Rates of Catholicism have always been strong in the Northeast and Midwest. But not in the protestant-heavy South.
So it's no wonder that Catholicism is growing faster here.
Mark Gray, a senior research associate at the Georgetown Center, said marriage is a common driver of Catholicism, as non-Catholics marry Catholics. And in Tennessee, non-Catholics and Catholics are more likely to marry simply because there are not enough Catholics to marry only other Catholics.
In the Volunteer State, about 8 percent of people are Catholic. That compares with 40 percent in Massachusetts and the national average of 24 percent.
"Tennessee is the third-least Catholic state in the country, which is exactly where we would expect these conversions to occur, because that 8 percent are likely marrying non-Catholics," Gray said.
In the Catholic Church, conversion is a commitment. It's more formal and involved than switching from one protestant church to another. And conversion is a commitment to the faith, not necessarily a particular church.
Before joining the church, converts take part in a college-like class that can last from nine months to a year.
"It is a very long program, and it's not something we take lightly, nor do the people becoming Catholic take it lightly," said Marvin Bushman, the director of religious education at Cleveland's St. Therese of Lisieux. "It is a big commitment."
Knoxville Bishop Richard F. Stika said the church is growing from rising minority populations, mainly Hispanics. Knoxville recently established a Vietnamese parish. And this part of the country is attracting more retirees and families, many of whom are Catholic.
"We're a growing Church, both in people who are choosing to become Catholic as well as people moving in from out of town," Stika told the diocesan newspaper, The East Tennessee Catholic.
At St. Therese, Brenda Blevins oversees the Catholic conversion program, called the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults, or RCIA. The Diocese of Knoxville, which includes 47 parishes, receives about 350 adult converts each year through RCIA.
Some come after marrying or dating a Catholic, but Blevins said many of their recent converts were single. And the RCIA program doesn't want people to just marry into the church.
"We want people to be here because they want to be and because they feel a call," she said.
And each convert has his own story. There are the college-age brothers who just joined together. And the widow of a Baptist minister who married a Catholic. Some come from protestant churches; others have never been baptized into any faith.
"I think part of the reason the Catholic Church is growing so much in Southeast Tennessee is because Southeast Tennessee is part of the Bible Belt," Blevins said. "And there are a lot of faithful Christians here."
Wrong. Without immigration RCs would be in decline.
“But, they don’t crow. Neither do other denominations.”
Maybe they do, maybe they don’t. This article is from a secular newspaper is it not? So who exactly is crowing?
Yes, you erred.
It’s much simpler than you make it:
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
We believe He forgives because He cannot and will not lie, and in His Word He tells us He is Faithful AND JUST to forgive us. I'm almost 69 years old, been a Christian since in my later twenties, and I end every day thanking God for yet another day and reviewing where I have failed to be the Christian He wants of and for me. I ask His forgiveness and He is faithful and just to follow through on His promises, one of which is His forgiveness toward me. It is much more than merely believing because I want to be forgiven. It is the assurance of His promises which tells me my honest confession to Him results in His forgiveness toward me.
Obviously, their basis for assurance should be the an internet persona called daniel1212.
Unfortunately, as Catholics "Southern Americans of today" will be expected to believe in and defend both evolution and the documentary hypothesis (which are taught in all modern imprimatured Catholic bibles).
I applaud you for sticking up for Southerners when the rest of your co-religionists consider them lower than dirt, but all those "Southern Americans" are going to get burned . . . badly.
Don't look for peace in Catholicism, folks. It's chaos in there. The Truth is found elsewhere.
A while ago one you separated brethren made a similar comment along the same lines. I suggested to them exactly what I am going to suggest to you: Go ahead post that type of thread and see how many comments you get and how many "shrieks of indignation and cries of "bigotry"" you actually get. I am guessing it will be darn few.
But go ahead and prove me wrong.
First, immigration, but a very close second, conversion.
And I stand by that.
As another poster has said, early in the RCIA process, during the inquire portion time, interviews are done in regards to any possible converts.
Once they become Catholic, give them the opportunity to get to know the faith, which includes that of TRUTH.
There is nothing wrong with people who inquire about the Catholic faith, be they of a faith or no faith at all to ask very important questions. This is what the period inquire and response to their inquire(s) is all about.
“Don’t look for peace in Catholicism, folks. It’s chaos in there. The Truth is found elsewhere.”
The reality is that, there is going to be “ups and downs” in the Christian faith community regardless of whatever church one belongs to. That is the normal process of life itself.
Of course. Cause answering them would cause the whole house of cards to fall and they'd know better.
Better to let them become well indoctrinated before answering questions that would make them think twice.
If their new found faith was worth its salt, it could handle questions like that. If it can't or their shaken by it, it goes to show that the foundation of their faith is weak and really deserves a closer second look.
1. What is the basis for your assurance of truth?
Jesus Christ, Who can neither deceive nor be deceived.
2. Is an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium essential for determination of Truth (including which writings and men are of God) and preservation of faith?
I take it you're asking here about the determination of the Canon of Scripture, since there can be no confidence in the the authority of Scripture unless we know confidently what Scripture comprises.It was by the apostolic Tradition that the Church discerned which writings are to be included in the list of the sacred books. Scripture is Liturgical: it is to be proclaimed in official public worship. The Books used --- in practice -- by the local Churches in Liturgy, comprise the Canon later formally proclaimed by local synods and councils such as Hippo and Carthage. In other words, first came the preaching of the Apostles and their immediate successors; then came liturgical practice, what the Churches actually did ("Lex orandi, lex credendi"); then came formal Canon.
3. Does being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation mean that such is that assuredly infallible magisterium?
The local Churches (meaning, in Catholic parlance, dioceses) were, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation; it follows that the Churches in union were necessarily infallible in their transmission of Revelation.
4. Are those who knowingly dissent from the latter in rebellion to God?
I'm not sure what you mean by "the latter." Those who dissent from this Revelation are dissenting from God.Whether this imputable as a subjective, morally deliberate "rebellion" depends on the extent to which the individual knows and intends rebellion against Our Lord the Holy Spirit. Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church gives a fuller treatment here.
“Don’t look for peace in Catholicism, folks. It’s chaos in there. The Truth is found elsewhere.”
The reality is that, there is going to be “ups and downs” in the Christian faith community regardless of whatever church one belongs to. That is the normal process of life itself.
It's true that all religions are currently in crisis. There doesn't appear to be any that have been exempt from the maelstrom.
Catholicism is a particularly bad offender, however, because of its false claim to be semper idem (always the same) and its rampant liberalism/modernism, which infects the entire church from the top down and probably has for over a century. Also the post tried to portray Catholicism as appropriate for rural (white) Southerners when contemporary Catholicism is quite hostile to them and vehemently rejects traditional Biblical authorship, six day young earth creationism, chrstian Zionism, and apocalypticism of any kind. Some Southerners reject one or two of these but to reject all four is to be profoundly alien to the Southern culture.
I hope you know that I have experienced the "bait and switch" that is Catholicism first hand.
This is the standard RC recourse, the argument being that the stewards of Scripture are the infallible interpreters of it, but for clarification please answer the questions in post #8 above .
How can a newly baptized baby have any sins to be forgiven?
What does the baby receive when s/he receives the gift of the Holy Spirit?
Catholics USED to say Holy GHOST but that disappeared over the decades. The Protestants have obviously FOLLOWED the Catholic change.
How was defrocked ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST, Father Martin Luther, allowed to disregard the Apostolic Tradition and all the teachings of the Catholic Church that had ALREADY been in existence for ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED YEARS?
Now there are over 30,000 DIFFERENT Protestant denominations?
Is THAT keeping it simple?
This ALL started with defrocked Father Martin Luther. I hope he's happy with that.
Then why is it so difficult to get these questions answered clearly, if at all, while the "the Catholic Church gave you the Bible, so she is what you must follow" assertion which precipitates these queries is so often employed?
But that is to be discouraged,
It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock...the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors. - VEHEMENTER NOS, an Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906.
“All that we do [as must be patent enough now] is to submit our judgment and conform our beliefs to the authority Almighty God has set up on earth to teach us; this, and nothing else.”
Holding to Catholic principles how can he do otherwise? How can he consistently seek after truth when he is convinced that he holds it? Who else can teach him religious truth when he believes that an infallible Church gives him God's word and interprets it in the true and only sense? — (John H. Stapleton, Explanation of Catholic Morals, Chapter XXIII “Absolute, immediate, and unfaltering submission to the teaching of God's Church on matters of faith and morals-----this is what all must give..” —“Henry G. Graham, "What Faith Really Means",
< Jesus Christ, Who can neither deceive nor be deceived.
I think that is such a given as to seem like an avoidance of the question. How about "What is your instrumental basis for assurance of truth?"
2. Is an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium essential for determination of Truth (including which writings and men are of God) and preservation of faith?
I take it you're asking here about the determination of the Canon of Scripture,
If that is all i meant then i would have said Scripture, not "including which writings and men are of God." But i mean, "Is an assuredly infallible magisterium essential for determination of Truth, both oral and written, and including which men are of God?"
there can be no confidence in the the authority of Scripture unless we know confidently what Scripture comprises.
So one must have a complete canon in order to have confidence in the the authority of Scripture?
It was by the apostolic Tradition that the Church discerned...
That simply describes the process, not how even such a medium as apostolic tradition was established as being of God. But would you say the infallible magisterium essential to determine what writings are of God?
Cardinal Dulles states, "People cannot discover the contents of revelation by their unaided powers of reason and observation. They have to be told by people who have received in from on high." - Cardinal Avery Dulles, SJ, “Magisterium: Teacher and Guardian of the Faith,” p. 72;
3. Does being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation mean that such is that assuredly infallible magisterium?
The local Churches (meaning, in Catholic parlance, dioceses) were...
But this presumes a centralized magisterium, and so your answer is that being the magisterium over the body which was the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation means or requires assured (if conditional) infallibility?
4. Are those who knowingly dissent from the latter in rebellion to God?
I'm not sure what you mean by "the latter." Those who dissent from this Revelation are dissenting from God.
"Latter" refers to the assuredly infallible magisterium just mentioned, since it determines what the Revelation is. Is that a yes or a no? As Pope Boniface VIII in his infallible Unam Sanctam states, "Whoever, therefore, resists this authority [the pope], resists the command of God Himself."
Whether this imputable as a subjective, morally deliberate "rebellion" depends on the extent to which the individual knows and intends rebellion against Our Lord the Holy Spirit. Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written.
I said "knowingly" for that reason. But as per your answer, it seems you must mean that those who see obedience to God as requiring dissent from Rome in any dogma is rebellion against God, under the premise that being the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, and inheritors of Divine promises of guidance and preservation, "the same God is the author both of the Sacred Books and of the doctrine committed to the Church" and thus "all interpretation is foolish and false which... is opposed to the doctrine of the Church.(Providentissimus Deus)
Could you answer these more clearly? Thanks.
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