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1 posted on 06/26/2014 6:52:04 PM PDT by matthewrobertolson
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To: matthewrobertolson

“Practically speaking, then, Protestantism purports that Christ has many brides. “

Silly post of the day!

Christians believe there is ONE Church, One Body, One Bride, composed of all true believers of all time. Some are visible today because they are alive on earth.


2 posted on 06/26/2014 6:57:19 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: matthewrobertolson

A woman came to a church and told the pastor she wanted to sing in the choir. The pastor explained that she needed to be a member of this church in order to sing in this church’s choir.

The woman retorted, “Sir, I would have you know that I am a member of the invisible church!”

The pastor said, “Well then, why don’t you go and join the invisible choir?”


3 posted on 06/26/2014 6:57:46 PM PDT by Keli Kilohana (Editor, ZARR CHASM CHRONICAL [sic], Sore, WV)
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To: matthewrobertolson

“But what is Protestantism’s relationship to the Church, then? Well, Protestants are in imperfect communion with Her, having only ecclesial communities without all of the seven Sacraments. “

Target rich environment!

Protestant believers are always in perfect communion with His Gathering.
That includes some Catholics also.
There aren’t 7 “sacraments”. Scripture doesn’t identify any sacraments.
It does command baptism of true believers.


4 posted on 06/26/2014 6:59:16 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: matthewrobertolson

Was it to the “invisible church at Corinth” that Paul wrote two letters directly to?

There is no “invisible church” in the Bible. There is only the local, visible expression of “the church”. Anything beyond that is simply man’s efforts to explain what is firmly in Christ’s hands.

Another way to look at it - Why did Christ institute “the church” on earth? Obviously first is that He might be glorified in/through her.

But second, the Church was to “go, make disciples” - baptizing and teaching... How can any invisible nebulous entity do that?


5 posted on 06/26/2014 7:01:01 PM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: matthewrobertolson

How does YHvH define "church" i.e.Ekklesia ?

The Law of First Mention

Is it all those called out by YHvH ?

A study of the word "church", in the Koine Greek : Ekklesia.

Was the "church" started at the YHvH commanded
Feast day of Shavuot (pentecost) as some say ?

or

Did the "church" exist earlier ?

Using the LXX as a guide we see that the Ekklesia
is first used in Deuteronomy 4:10

NAsbU Deuteronomy 4:10 "Remember the day you stood before YHvH, your God
at Horeb, when YHvH said to me, 'Assemble the people to Me, that I may let
them hear My words so they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on
the earth, and that they may teach their children.
'
Also see : Deu 4:10, Deu 9:10, Deu 18:16, Deu 23:3, Deu 23:4, Deu 23:9, Deu 31:30,
Jos 9:2, Jda 20.2, Jda 21:5, Jda 21:8, Jdg 20:2 Jdg 21:5, Jdg 21:8, 1 Sa 17:47,
1 Sa 19:20, 1 Ki 8:14, 1 Ki 8:22, 1 Ki 8:55, 1 Ki 8:65, 1 Ch 13:2, 1 Ch 13:4, 1 Ch 28:2,
1 Ch 28:8

What was the purpose of the Ekklesia ?

Was it a temporal corporation to rule on earth ? No !

Was it to have a temporal head ? No !

It was a gathering of YHvH's chosen people to hear His Word ?

and learn to Fear YHvH all their days ?

And to teach their children the same ? Yes.

-------------

Ekklesia is from the Hebrew Qahal (kof, hey, lamed)

(kof => The HOLY ONE
hey => grace, breath of G-d
lamed => teaching and learning)
which is haQahal The assembly (hey, kop, hey, lamed)
In scripture it is always used to describe
those who have been assembled by YHvH.
It begins in Exodus 16:3 ( the bread from heaven )
and continues to Nehemiah 8:17 (living in Booths)
NAsbU Nehemiah 8:17
The entire assembly of those who had returned from
the captivity made booths and lived in them.
The sons of Israel had indeed not done so
from the days of Joshua(Yehoshua)
the son of Nun to that day.
And there was great rejoicing.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
6 posted on 06/26/2014 7:01:35 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: matthewrobertolson

I live in one Nation with invisible liberty and justice for all.


7 posted on 06/26/2014 7:09:51 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy ("Harvey Dent, can we trust him?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBsdV--kLoQ)
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To: matthewrobertolson

Then according to you Christians who are outside the Catholic Church but are saved are infinitely better off than anyone who is in the Catholic Church and not saved. The saved know the Lord but the unsaved do not.


10 posted on 06/26/2014 8:55:29 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: matthewrobertolson
Is the Church only invisible?

Only if one leaves the visible Church.

The doctrine of invisible only is making a virtue of necessity. If you leave the visible Church, it must, of necessity, be invisible only.

11 posted on 06/26/2014 9:15:08 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: matthewrobertolson
St. Augustine realized this, writing in his 45th Tractate on the Gospel of John, "[H]ow many sheep are outside, how many wolves within! And how many sheep are inside, how many wolves without!" There, he cites verses on predestination and bluntly makes the point that one could be in the Church one day and excommunicated the next, just as Luke 8:13 hints!

This is a strange comment to make on Augustine. Augustine does not mention excommunication, as in, someone who is nominally a Christian but breaks communion with some leader, but sin, and those who break fellowship with Christ. He talks about those who go from "soberness" to drunkenness were never the "sheep" to begin with, as they were not those who were foreknown and predestinated. As he writes here:

"In like manner, how many are praising within who will yet blaspheme; are chaste who will yet be fornicators; are sober who will wallow hereafter in drink; are standing who will by and by fall! These are not the sheep. (For we speak of those who were predestinated—of those whom the Lord knows that they are His.) And yet these, so long as they keep right, listen to the voice of Christ. Yea, these hear, the others do not; and yet, according to predestination, these are not sheep, while the others are." (Augustine, Tractate 45)

Thus Augustine here even differentiates those who are currently in the church "so long as they keep right, and listen to the voice of Christ," but yet "are not sheep," while the wolves who have been predestinated to be sheep are.

This has nothing to do with communion with a particular Bishop, but the difference between the reprobate and the elect, the latter of which will infallibly become Christians, and the former, even if they are in the church currently, will drive themselves out through sin.

13 posted on 06/26/2014 11:33:50 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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