HarleyD:
Well I appreciate you giving me a date 600AD. Grace and Free will can’t go together?? I disagree, it is we on this side of the divide can’t reconcile how they do, only God knows.
You missed what I said, it was the Protestants who were attacking Saint Augustine, not Catholics. In other words, it was Protestants posting at a Catholic site stating Augustine got it wrong with his justification that was infused [Grace is not the debate] because he was not fluent in Hebrew and his understanding of Hebrew got lost in translation in Latin via Greek from the Hebrew [Again, it was the Protestants, Reformed mind you, criticizing Augustine, not Catholics]. Catholics have not given up on Augustine as he was one.
Diety of Mary, not even going to respond to that. No such thing has happened and can happen as she is human. I thought you would have gotten that by now as the Assumption of Mary has been discussed, and I think you and I have actually been part of those discussions. Mary is not God and no Catholic teaching would ever make such claim because that is heresy.
he issue of pre-Vatican II and post Vatican II on who is part of the Church is what you are getting at. There is only 1 Church, all are in it at some level, some more than others, but all are related to it or part of it so the question of how one understands “outside the Church there is no salvation” is one of those things that has always been part of Church teaching, but it has never been completely and definitively defined.
It all depends on how you interpret "free will". Please note the following observation from Moses:
Our "free will" is to act corruptly and to provoke the Lord. It is only because of God's steadfast love that He constantly works with us to bring us around. There isn't anything that we do for God including wanting to live for Him.
Free will is an illusion. Our desire is to freely act against God. We deceive ourselves when we believe we are acting for God.
Mary is not God and no Catholic teaching would ever make such claim because that is heresy.
Let's look at the facts that are claimed about Mary by the Catholic Church:
2) She did not die
3) If one makes a request to her, she will intercede with the Son and the Son will not deny His mother
4) Salvation came to the world because of Mary's righteous act
The [sic] issue of pre-Vatican II and post Vatican II on who is part of the Church is what you are getting at. There is only 1 Church, all are in it at some level, some more than others, but all are related to it or part of it so the question of how one understands “outside the Church there is no salvation” is one of those things that has always been part of Church teaching, but it has never been completely and definitively defined.
The dogma of the Roman Catholic Church reads as following:
2.Christ founded the Catholic Church in order to continue His work of redemption for all time.
3.Christ gave His Church a hierarchical constitution.
4.The powers bestowed on the Apostles have descended to the Bishops.
5.Christ appointed the Apostle Peter to be the first of all the Apostles and to be the visible Head of the whole Catholic Church, by appointing him immediately and personally to the primacy of jurisdiction.
6.According to Christ's ordinance, Peter is to have successors in his Primacy over the whole Catholic Church and for all time.
7.The successors of Peter in the Primacy are the Bishops of Rome.
8.The Pope possesses full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Catholic Church, not merely in matters of faith and morals, but also in Church discipline and in the government of the Church.
9.The Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra.
10.By virtue of Divine right, the bishops possess an ordinary power of government over their dioceses.
11.Christ founded the Catholic Church.
12.Christ is the Head of the Catholic Church.
13.In the final decision on doctrines concerning faith and morals, the Catholic Church is infallible.
14.The primary object of the Infallibility is the formally revealed truths of Christian Doctrine concerning faith and morals.
15.The totality of the Bishops is infallible, when they, either assembled in general council or scattered over the earth propose a teaching of faith or morals as one to he held by all the faithful.
16.The Church founded by Christ is unique and one.
17.The Church founded by Christ is holy.
18.The Church founded by Christ is catholic.
19.The Church founded by Christ is apostolic.
20.Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation.