Posted on 08/30/2014 7:00:33 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Victoria Osteen, wife of megachurch preacher and New York Times bestselling author Joel Osteen, is now facing withering criticism online for a viral video clip in which she is shown telling congregants at Lakewood Church that obedience, worship and church attendance is not for God but themselves.
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side in approval. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy…"
"So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered.
Erick Erickson, politicly conservative blogger and editor-in-chief of the blog site RedState.com, summed up his reaction to Mrs. Osteen's pronouncement in a quote from the 1995 movie "Billy Madison."
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely, idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent, response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. May God have mercy on your soul," it ended.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...
Yep...I think there is a personal benefit in doing that;and this personal benefit is directly derived from a belief and following in the Lord.
MIDLION, I might suggest that one read all of that chapter to see the context of that verse you quoted. It brings the meaning of the chapter into a clearer and more concise perspective.
TF2009...Thanks for your wise words.
IMO, as a not-so-good Christian, I think the reference to the book of Job is spot-on (on target).
Agree with you completely.
Pretty moronic statement on his part, it just twists the definition of what altruism is and makes words meaningless.
Common experience tells us there is a big difference between a person who acts altruistically and one who acts selfishly, regardless of how it makes them feel.
I mean, even a moron should be able to tell the difference between an act that makes two people feel good, versus an act that makes only one person feel good. Even the notion of ‘feeling good’ is so simplistic and juvenile, it does not capture the range of human emotion and motivation.
Ayn Rand , who hated religion, would of course think that.
Her thinking is shallow.
To suggest that helping someone is the same as cheating them because it makes the instigator ‘feel good’ defines savage, relativistic, atheism.
What are these positive feelings ? Those of compulsion and addiction, or principle and vision ?
Rand is basically a conservative version of amoral post modernism.
Other than having Christian in their name, CP seems more interested in generating page views/revenue rather than thoughtful Christian commentary.
While this might have been a good launching point to discuss what life is like for a child of God, they preferred to take a snarky tone and post childish videos in an attempt to get laughs at the expense of others.
I know this is going to sound strange, but I happen to agree with this. Everything God has commanded us to do is for our benefit and happiness-and that includes the worshiping of Him. When we fail to follow His commands we are actually going against those things that make us happy.
Deu 5:33 You shall walk in all the way that the LORD your God has commanded you, that you may live, and that it may go well with you, and that you may live long in the land that you shall possess.
Au Contra-ire.
Just because God has a predestined reward in heaven doesn’t mean we are performing a good work to make God a debtor.
There do exist people who are performing good works to gain favor as a debt, but they will lose what they have.
Charity implies one anticipates nothing in return for their gift.
God’s Perfect Holiness is comprised of His Perfect Righteousness and Perfect Justice.
He doesn’t need our devotion, but we need to remain devoted to Him for life.
I'm of the opinion that the 10 Commandments aren't for God's benefit, but were given to us by God to increase our happiness and benefit us directly.
I agree with you (and some of the other posters). She seems to be saying, in a somewhat garbled way, that God does not need us to worship Him: we need to worship God. To say otherwise would be to say that God is incomplete without our worship.
In the same way, God does not "need" our good works. He could cure disease, feed everyone, and so on purely through His own power. However, He does not: He choose to allow us to participate in His work of healing and restoration.
Yup. This, at least, is a time to speak our minds now that we have the chance.
Yeah, but that’s a benefit not the main reason for obeying God.
Victoria’s whole premise that we should obey God because it’s good for us and He wants to make us happy, is not to be found in Scripture.
I don’t read anywhere that it gives God joy when we’re happy and that’s why we’re supposed to worship or obey Him.
Long and short of it is, they’re false teachers, charlatans, and I don’t trust a thing they say.
So if you are doing it for yourself, why keep doing it if it doesn’t get you what you want? The first time you don’t leave church “happy”, why go back?
Face it, stuff like that keeps the money flowing to the church.
It sure does.
People are looking for gratifying the flesh and when we are told to worship and obey to gratify the flesh, it’s the wrong reason.
Then it’s not worship or obedience.
It’s trying to blackmail God or twist His arm to do stuff for us so we can live comfortable, pain free, happy lives. It’s manipulation. If I do *A*, then God has to do *B*.
It puts people in the position of using God.
I’m teaching a Sunday School lesson this AM using this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00-6OyXVA0M
After I posted my comment I thought about how it could be, legitimately, construed as doing it for the wrong reason. And, given that Victoria Osteen stated it, I certainly wouldn't put it past her that this was her intent. "If I worship God, then I'll be happy." So, in that sense you are both correct.
OTOH, I will still stand by my statement that every command in scripture is given to us that our joy may be full. That doesn't mean we will have riches or health or things of this earth. It means that we will have peace and happiness with God regardless of the situations around us. And God wants us to worship Him not so that we get something back. We worship God because it is for our benefit.
So, yes, worship is for our happiness and we should do it for our happiness.
She only said what many believe.
8:30 Sunday morn in Indiana, dark out in Nev, lights blinking EVERYWHERE!
Don’t they ever sleep out there?
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