Oh, what a circus, Oh what a show!
Because the circus mass is such an improvement!
From the above thread:
And from another site:
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Posted on 09/02/2014 5:55:17 PM PDT by Gamecock
Oh, what a circus, Oh what a show!
Because the circus mass is such an improvement!
From the above thread:
And from another site:
Wow.
Excuses, excuses.....
Can you ever admit that someone else is correct?
You are “done here,” you say, yet you still have not answered my simple question.
DO YOU BELIEVE WHAT JESUS SAID, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” or NOT? Do you believe that Jesus spoke The Truth, The Ultimate Truth no matter what circumstance you find yourself in, i.e., you follow osteen and his happy “teachings?”
**So do you believe you were saved after asking Jesus to be your savior or not until you were baptized?**
According to the Calvinist message, I believed on the Lord as my savior.
But, always wondered why Acts was almost always avoided in bible studies and sermons. When I was hungry for more, at the age of 28, I was sent a witness, to the born again experience prophesied by the Lord, and shown several times in Acts.
It was then I knew I was saved, when I obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered to me. (see Rms 6:17)
“Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness”. Rms 6:18
**You can argue with Peter and Paul all you want, but it is not water that gives us life:**
I never said one time that water gives life. Water baptism in the name of Jesus is burial with him, We are to rise from that burial, by the ‘glory of the Father’ (the Holy Ghost.
Sir, you certainly use a LOT of private interpretation.
The flood washed away a type of sin; the evil in the world. And the flood BURIED it.
**Water baptism saves you out of the wicked world we live in and show we are a people set apart. It follows new life, but does not give it.**
FOLLOWS new life? So you’re saying that, symbolically, the Israelites had new life without crossing the Red Sea, but passed through the sea to be a people set apart.
The Red Sea ‘washed away’ a type of sin (the life in Egypt), burying it in a watery grave. The children of Israel passed through it, else they would have perished at the hands of the Egyptians. They arose from that ‘passing through the sea’ experience to life in the Spirit (the cloud that went before them).
**There is a reason why the baptism in the Holy Spirit is so important:**
You’re preaching to the choir. I believe in the Holy Ghost infilling making us one spiritually with Christ, and giving us power to overcome the world, AND having the power of the resurrection by that Spirit.
I’ve never said that water baptism is life. It is being buried with Christ.
Whether you realize it or not, you seem to interpret Acts 2:38 this way:
“Repent, and be baptized every one of you with the Holy Ghost in the name of Jesus Christ and ye shall receive remission of sins”.
That’s not what it says in my Bible. The obedience of repentance, and being baptized in the name of Jesus (buried with him) brings remission of sins (that’s when His blood is applied to you individually, bringing remission of sins). Believe it!
What I believe is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
You owe answers to support your accusation and attacks on Joel but are unable to do it (copying and pasting a Q&A session doesn’t cut it).
I’m done playing ring around the rosy with you.
Bye.
Another thing about this comment of yours:
**Water baptism saves you out of the wicked world we live in and show we are a people set apart. It follows new life, but does not give it.**
Noah did not have a new life until he was out of the water.
The life on the ark was not sustainable. Eventually the feed would run out, and the animals would perish, and then also Noah and family. New life follows death and burial.
You should consider running for an office somewhere.
You didn’t answer my question. I didn’t ask when you “knew” you were saved. Or are you saying that you were not actually saved until you were baptized?
“Moses would beg to differ with you.”
Except we’re no longer subject to Mosaic law:
Galatians 2:16 -
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
Galations 3:13- Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galations 3:14 - That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
“FOLLOWS new life? So you’re saying that, symbolically, the Israelites had new life without crossing the Red Sea, but passed through the sea to be a people set apart.”
Yes - God had already claimed them as His own, and had already decided to bring them out of Egypt. They were already saved by God, and already His Chosen People. They were not accepted by God based on crossing the Red Sea, but crossed the Red Sea because God had already accepted them!
“Whether you realize it or not, you seem to interpret Acts 2:38 this way:
“Repent, and be baptized every one of you with the Holy Ghost in the name of Jesus Christ and ye shall receive remission of sins”.”
Peter was not teaching a systematic theology class, thank God! What he said, after the people repented, is summarized in three sentences:
“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
The emphasis was on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit - after all, that is what drew the men to listen to Peter to begin with! Acts Chapter 2 is about what happened when the Apostles received the Holy Spirit!
Peter undoubtedly also insisted on water baptism for the new converts, all of whom were Jews who fully understood the concept - unlike today, when almost no one in the unsaved populace knows what it is or why it might be done.
Peter did not need to explain to the listening Jews what water baptism meant because they already knew. It was already long accepted by the Jews as a symbol of the inner change that had already taken place - after all, no adult is baptized against his will. No Jew believed the water gave life, or that it was anything other than an outward symbol of the inner reality.
As for “the remission of sins”, the Greek can by interpreted two valid ways - baptized to gain forgiveness, or baptized in recognition of forgiveness. Given that the audience was Jewish, and that they ALL understood before Peter said a word that water baptism RECOGNIZED the change, it is pretty simple to know how they interpreted Peter, and indeed what Peter meant.
To be made part of the body of Christ requires baptism of the Holy Spirit - the Baptism that Jesus does. That is directly and explicitly taught: “For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”
“Noah did not have a new life until he was out of the water.”
Noah was on the Ark. Why? Because God had already accepted him. He was right with God before the Ark was built, since he built it in response to God’s command. Noah was accepted by God long before the Flood!
And you should seriously consider stopping your unjust and wrongful attack on Joel Osteen. I pray that you will stop, in Jesus name. Amen.
Bye.
**Noah was accepted by God long before the Flood!**
I guess he didn’t need to BUILD the ark after all since he was saved before the flood.
“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, PREPARED an ark to the SAVING of his house.....”. Heb. 11:7
Since we’re in Hebrews:
“By faith Abraham, when he was called to GO OUT into a place.......OBEYED..” 11:8
“I guess he didn’t need to BUILD the ark after all since he was saved before the flood.”
Noah was approved by God prior to the Flood. He was already right with God:
“Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.”
That sure sound like approval to me, before the Flood and before the Ark was built.
So what did the Flood do? Hmmmm? In what sense did the Flood ‘save’ Noah?
Well, it separated him from the evil generation he was in - which is what water baptism does for us. Sanctification, not justification. Important, but it does not make us right with God. God does that prior to water baptism.
**Yes - God had already claimed them as His own, and had already decided to bring them out of Egypt. They were already saved by God, and already His Chosen People. They were not accepted by God based on crossing the Red Sea, but crossed the Red Sea because God had already accepted them!**
Moses was the voice of God to the Israelites. Ex. 4:12,15.
They “were under the cloud, and passed through the sea. And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea”. 1Cor. 10:1,2
That’s when “Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still and SEE the SALVATION of the Lord, which he will SHEW to you TO DAY: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen TO DAY, ye shall see them again no more for ever.” Ex. 14:13
**Peter was not teaching a systematic theology class,**
Yes he was!!
**What he said, after the people repented, is summarized in three sentences:**
...after the people repented? The word says they were pricked in their hearts. That’s conviction, not repentance. That’s why Peter told them they had to repent.
You seem to do a lot ‘cart before the horse’ theology. And go into long interpretations of baptism, and STILL you won’t address ‘being buried with him’. That’s not Holy Ghost baptism. Because Holy Ghost baptism is not death and burial, but life eternal.
**No Jew believed the water gave life,**
That’s good, because I haven’t said it does either. Remission of sins is not Holy Ghost baptism. They are not the same thing; just like the ‘cloud’ and the ‘sea’ were not the same thing. But the Iraelites had to experience them both to ‘see the salvation of the Lord’.
At least, He should be, right?
**So what did the Flood do? Hmmmm? In what sense did the Flood ‘save’ Noah? Well, it separated him from the evil generation he was in - which is what water baptism does for us.**
Did you even read this?
“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, PREPARED an ark to the SAVING of his house.....”. Heb. 11:7
Noah was WARNED (grace) of God. He HAD to DO something to be saved. The warning, and instructions for escaping God’s wrath were to be followed..to the letter.
You seem to believe in predestination. Are you predestined to not be buried with Him in likeness of his death?
**Galatians 2:16 -**
The saints at Galatia were already born again. But, unfortunately were still performing some of the ‘works of the Law’. Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is NOT a work of the Law. God remits the sins, not man.
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