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To: af_vet_1981
Then we wrestle with definitions. To agree that the provisional aspects of the Old Covenant are no longer binding on Christians is what most Protestants mean when they reference the Old Covenant generally. They are not speaking of the eternal principles of righteousness, which we can all agree are immutable because they reflect the holy character of God. But they transcend the Old Covenant. They are not contained by it. It is contained by them. And they do reappear in the New Covenant. In fact, that is a guiding principle. Whatever has been reiterated for Christians as moral truth, is not regarded as having passed with the Old Covenant.

But the function of the law is different in the New Covenant. We are no longer dealing with the insignia of a theocratic nation, but with the universal body of Christ. Thus the body of law that is inherently temporal and not eternal has indeed been set aside. The very term Old is a consequence of God Himself calling this revised use of the law a New Covenant. See Hebrews 8:13.

So we have that the eternal law does not pass away, but the Old Covenant does, and has, passed away. Not so much a revocation as a fulfilment of purpose. Not unlike a Chrysalis, it has done what it was supposed to do, lead us to Christ, and now it is an empty shell. The life within it has moved on to the higher life of living in God's grace by His Spirit, through faith in Jesus Christ.

But the relation it has to the believer is no longer a function of condemnation:

(KJV)Romans 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. [3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So although we say that OSAS, if indeed it is used as a naked excuse for wallowing in sin, is serious error, we also say the law has no more power of condemnation against us. Our justification is forensic, by operation of divine law we are acquitted of all guilt because we have identified with the crucified Christ.

But for those who believe in Jesus it doesn't stop there. They also receive God's Spirit as a pledge that He will follow through on the entire work of fulfilling all the consequences of our salvation. The witness of His Spirit with ours that we belong to Him is real. It is experienced by everyone born of the Spirit, born from above, born again.

And it is transformative. The new birth does not leave you the same person you were before. All things have become new. Old things have passed away. It's no longer about dodging divine lightning bolts. It's about living out the new life of love God Himself has birthed within your heart. That's what it means to be elect. Unlike Israel of old, where the nation was chosen but individuals might fail, no one chosen for salvation in Christ will fail. There may be intermediate lapses, and with those lapses will come God's chastisement. But chastisement is not retribution. Retribution for our sins, all of them, was placed on our Savior. It was our sin that held Him to the cross.

But we do experience chastisement. Which as you may recall, is not administered to strangers and outcasts, but only to true sons and daughters. It gives evidence of His love for us. But it is not condemnation. It is not MSML, many times saved and many times lost, always worrying if some last second lapse, a moment of unjustified anger, a brief flicker of unseemly lust, might undo a lifetime of doing righteousness to the max. That is not reflective of the adoption we have as sons and daughters. Adoption is a steady state. It doesn't fluctuate. There will be good days and bad days, but always a Father and His child, working it through, faithful till the end. He who has begun a good work in you will finish the job He started. That's what I'm talking about.

Peace,

SR

288 posted on 09/19/2014 10:46:53 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; CynicalBear; daniel1212; ..

AMEN!!! PREACH IT, Brother.

Your posts have been awesome.

Thanks for stating what so may of us believe so concisely.


289 posted on 09/19/2014 11:47:24 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Springfield Reformer

...”The Old Covenant has done what it was supposed to do, lead us to Christ, and now it is an empty shell. The life within it has moved on to the higher life of living in God’s grace by His Spirit, through faith in Jesus Christ”.....

Exactly!...and Amen!


290 posted on 09/19/2014 11:57:23 AM PDT by caww
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To: Springfield Reformer

Well said and spot on!!


291 posted on 09/19/2014 12:21:17 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decideIf I need to locate a verse, do I ask thed to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Springfield Reformer; CynicalBear; metmom

I am soooo saving that post....


292 posted on 09/19/2014 1:00:28 PM PDT by caww
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To: Springfield Reformer
So we have that the eternal law does not pass away, but the Old Covenant does, and has, passed away. Not so much a revocation as a fulfilment of purpose. Not unlike a Chrysalis, it has done what it was supposed to do, lead us to Christ, and now it is an empty shell. The life within it has moved on to the higher life of living in God's grace by His Spirit, through faith in Jesus Christ.

Not one jot or tittle of the Law or Prophets has passed away. No Protestant has the authority to revoke the law. A Preterist will argue it is revoked, and all over now. I believe the LORD Jesus Christ who said Elijah will indeed come and restore all things. Just as Messiah will come twice, Elijah will come twice and now Malachi 4 makes sense with Matthew 5. Elijah and Messiah are sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. They have unfinished business.

4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts. 4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

As long as Israel remains blinded and in unbelief the Law of Moses must remain in effect. After Messiah saves all Israel and heaven and earth pass away, well then we shall see all things become new.

293 posted on 09/19/2014 1:48:31 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: Springfield Reformer
It's no longer about dodging divine lightning bolts.

On the contrary, I find that line of reasoning to be problematic and the Catholic view to be scriptural, although I would characterize it as avoiding sins unto death. Jesus was, no doubt, deadly serious serious when he warned to pluck out an eye or cut off a limb rather than to grievously sin with them. He knew we love our own bodies so much only a lunatics would do so, but that we must very zealous to eschew such sins. 26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

294 posted on 09/19/2014 2:33:46 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: Springfield Reformer; metmom; caww
So we have that the eternal law does not pass away, but the Old Covenant does, and has, passed away.

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Hebrews 9:10)

My ramblings on that .

Not so much a revocation as a fulfilment of purpose. Not unlike a Chrysalis, it has done what it was supposed to do, lead us to Christ, and now it is an empty shell. The life within it has moved on to the higher life of living in God's grace by His Spirit, through faith in Jesus Christ.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:4)

Our justification is forensic, by operation of divine law we are acquitted of all guilt because we have identified with the crucified Christ.

By faith, which is what we have the warnings against casting that away, and exhortations to cleave to the Lord, (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12,14; 10:26-39) who works to bring about repentance, lest we be condemned with the rest of the world. (1Cor. 12:32)

297 posted on 09/19/2014 8:26:52 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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