THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY: Condemned as Heretical by 2 Popes in the 5th and 6th Centuries

christiantruth.com ^ | William Webster

[WVKayaker]

Matthew 21: 12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”

14 The blind and the lame came to him at the temple, and he healed them. 15 But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple courts, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they were indignant.

16 “Do you hear what these children are saying?” they asked him.

“Yes,” replied Jesus, “have you never read,

“‘From the lips of children and infants
you, Lord, have called forth your praise’?”
17 And he left them and went out of the city to Bethany, where he spent the night.

[CynicalBear]

Because Jesus is not the focus for Catholics. Jesus is unapproachable and Mary is front and center.

[Gamecock]

Yes you are!

[Syncro]

As has been mentioned many times, if you (or any poster) is too thinskinned for the open threads, they should not be on them.

All you are doing is making it personal...about you and posters you won’t debate, but will make personal accusations. Which can cause flame wars which the RM does NOT like, and will not tolerate.

Thinskinnedness cause those kinds of reactions, probably why the RM exhorts those that can’t debate and who bring it into the personal realm to go to other type of threads.

There is a topic to this thread, and it seems you are deflecting from it with your constant complaints about things you “mindread” into other posters thoughts.

If we all mentioned toners, non-Catholics would be busy mindreading instead of debating the issues.

So which Popes are right about Mary, the old ones or the more recent one?

[caww]

...”The authority we all have is God’s word so that when anyone tries to turn us away from the truth, we will know it - no matter who they claim to be or what authority they claim they have”......

The scriptures are available ‘to everyone’....that’s a very important matter to remember as you know... many people have begun their search by picking up a bible...not attending any church. God works through the scriptures each and every time.

[boatbums]

So yes, it was a blessing. But it does not make her into a sinless, immaculately conceived, never died, perpetual virgin....who can and will answer unlimited prayers to her, who was taken bodily into heaven, who will get you out of Purgatory, convince Jesus to do what you ask her to and if you don't believe everything that's declared, you will go to hell. I think that IS too far.

[narses]

“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “

[CynicalBear]

And you claim others are a “one trick pony”?

[Steelfish]

“Twist and turns” by “your” telling? No, the “twist and turns” come only when you deny Petrine authority and have every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane, the freedom of the wild ass to interpret as and how they choose ala Tammy Faye Baker; Jimmy Swaggart; Rev. Schullers; Rev. Sharptons. Hence you have your First Lutheran Church, First Baptist Church, AME Churches; corner street Foursquare Churches; Rick Warrens, Joel Osteens, First Calvary Church, First Methodist Church, (by the way any Second or Third Calvary Churches etc?). No, we don’t have this theological bedlam and Biblical anarchy.

This kind of “multiple “ interpretation to each his “own” is for low-information Christians, the type who flock to Joel Osteen; the Rev Jeremiah Wight; Billy Graham; David Koresh; where they wave their Bible in hand, quote some scripture from here and there, and so goes this incontinent juvenility. No small wonder that educated Jewish opinion with a rich tradition of scholarly inquiry looks down upon these groups like dumpsters on a street.

But when renowned theologians through the ages of both the Catholic faith, and of those in the Protestant world convert to Catholicism, the illiterate faithful are left dumbfounded. Apparently, somewhere along the 2000-year line, the Catholic Church whose early Fathers painstakingly used the oral tradition, historical authenticity; sacred ritual; and guided by the Holy Spirit put together the books we call the Bible, lost its Petrine authority. (Strange, they did not lose this authority during the decades they chose which writings to discard and which ones to include and which beliefs to accept).

Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses; Pentecostalists; Seventh-Day Adventists; Assemblies of God (whatever that means); all began to sprout out from the ground like wild mushrooms. Most wither away and die but each claims “authority” to interpret Scripture despite the constellation of theologians and scholars who believe this authority is one (Christ) given exclusively to Peter (rock) and his successors to establish one Church and teach one truth until the end of time. Hence the gates of hell shall never prevail against it.

[narses]

“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “

[CynicalBear]

And get here you are. Time after time concerned about nothing.

[narses]

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.

(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)

[ronnietherocket3]

Because Jesus is not the focus for Catholics. Jesus is unapproachable and Mary is front and center.

You should go to Mass sometime. We have a mystery that bread and wine become the Most Precious Body and Blood of Christ and we can consume. We do not have any teaching on a physical and real presence of Mary in any such manner. As a matter of fact, I rarely hear about Mary in Mass unless it is a Marian feast day or she is mentioned in scripture. In addition, most of the parishes around me have a very large statue of Jesus on a Cross above and behind the altar. During the entrance procession, the highest object is usually a cross with Jesus on it.

[CynicalBear]

Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses; Seventh-Day Adventists; Catholics; Muslims all rely on something in addition to scripture.

All the deflection in your post yet no infallible proof that the apostles taught about the assumption of Mary and the requirement to believe that.

[G Larry]

What fraction of the Bible makes up the Gospel?

Is the portion which is not “Gospel” to be discarded?

[CynicalBear]

>>Jesus on a Cross<<

Jesus still dead on the cross ey? Satan must love that image being projected to the world.

[G Larry]

It is you contention that the sources are unrelated.

Why do you deem that significant to the facts.