Posted on 10/05/2014 6:02:28 PM PDT by vabible
I have heard much impassioned debate lately about the question of whether America was founded as a Christian nation, so let's set the record straight here. The concept of a Christian nation is not found in the Bible, because it is impossible to have a Christian nation in this day and age. Christianity is the way of freedom and liberty. To receive Jesus Christ's free offer of eternal life is a matter of personal choice and conscience, mysteriously wrought in the individual human heart, will, and soul as God's Spirit draws all men to Himself.
Therefore, it is impossible to legislate Christianity into a nation. You cannot legislate morality any more than you can legislate saving faith. Here is another way of phrasing this: I believe with all my heart that the concept of a Christian theocracy, where both Christians and non-Christians are forced by the state to live a Christian/moral life, is abhorrent to the Christian God, just as forced conversions are abhorrent to the Christian God. We get a glimpse into how God views dead surface-level legalism in how Jesus dealt with the Pharisees - He reserved some of His harshest words for them. God looks at the heart, and that is an area of personal liberty, not political or institutional control.
At this point, I hope that those who come down on the side that America was not founded as a Christian nation are feeling somewhat vindicated, because while they may not be able to put their finger on it directly, something just doesn't feel right about the harsh judgmentalism of the Religious Right and other cultural warriors who want the Bible to be America's Constitution. I apologize that there are Christians who have a distorted view of God. But I wanted to challenge you with this thought:
America may not have been founded as a Christian nation, but it was founded as a nation that was pretty close to how the Christian God would found a nation: not one where people are forced to the faith and forced to live morally, but rather, one where people from all faiths and walks of life are welcome and treated equally. My conviction is that, of all religions in the world, the pure, unadulterated Christian faith has stood out in championing the universal equality of men and women, regardless of race, belief system, culture, or anything else, because all people are made in God's image.
America has tried to live out this heritage, and I would grade the past 200+ years as a D, or maybe a D+. I could list out the reasons, but they are too obvious. The slavery issue pretty much sealed the deal. But even so, the hallmark of freedom remains. Most Americans are no longer Christians today, and as a result, the landscape has changed. But this is all besides the point, for all of those who are lambasting single moms and broken families and blaming the culture of divorce and you name it for America's decline. The point is that the underlying DNA of freedom is still here. My belief is that that ideal of freedom (in other words, limited government) - where we can choose to believe anything, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, you name it - has descended from the heart of the Judeo-Christian faith.
One corollary, and I'll move onto final thoughts. Why is conservative political thought dying? Because by itself, it is powerless. Conservative political theory is one of non-action on part of the state. It must be bolstered by an impassioned plea for individuals, families, and communities to be agents of progress and change, or else it is a dead political philosophy. Just ask Leslie Knope what she thinks of Ron Swanson's political philosophy.
I digress. I end with an invitation for those who do not call themselves Christians to take advantage of our freedom here and continue to explore the truth. I especially invite you all to explore the Christian faith. If you come across stumbling blocks in the form of Christians who talk about people as if they are the enemy to be condemned, then I plead with you to brush them aside, and continue exploring.
My best wishes and prayers are with you all.
Good site: http://americanminute.com/ Subscribe to William Federer’s American Minute. The site also has resources that prove America was founded as a Christian Nation.
He is available for speaking engagements too.
Here is a short video, part of a much longer documentary on the deep Christian founding
David Barton A Capitol Tour
http://stg.do/Iwpc
As to the question, I will interjedt the following:
This nation was NOT built on the theology of Buddhists, Daoists, Confuscianists, Mohammedans, Pagans, Hindus, Sikhs, Voodoun, or any other as-yet-to-be-defined theoologies, such as Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Rastafarianism, or any other that would be passed over.
It WAS built on British-based Judeo-Christian theology, period.
David Barton will be among the Patriots participating in the I Pledge Sunday 2014 event one week from today.
“Christian” is a noun, not an adjective. It’s possible to have a nation of Christians, but not a “Christian nation”.
“...the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.” - Acts 11:26
It’s not nations, but disciples of Jesus who are called Christians. If we’ll use God’s words the way God does, we’ll avoid a lot of mistakes and confusion.
Why is slavery the big deal it's made out to be here? Does the writer think that there was no slavery in the time of Christ? It was more prolific where Jesus was than in the colonies at the founding of the nation. That is one reason that Christ was so in favor of spiritual salvation over the physical and that he did not to my knowledge ever condemn the institution of slavery. In fact I believe he once (at least) exhorted all slaves to be the very best slaves they could be and he also did the same for Roman centurions to be good soldiers and not bullies taking advantage of their power. Better to save the soul for the soul is eternal whereas the physical hardships will eventually have an end....
Deist not Christian
Why don't we see if it says?
"done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,"
Yup. It says so.
And yet the DemonRATs conveniently overlook that a far more pernicious and widespread slavery exists now. There's the income tax, a vile form of servitude. And of course, labor unions and the minimum wage destroy liberty. Isn't it ironic that the Confederate States are leading the charge for liberty by keeping the slavemasters (union goons) at bay.
This is a completely incoherent and psychotic statement. Read no further. The author, whoever he is, is deranged.
No, it is a myth. It was founded in rebellion. Of course, like all governments founded in rebellion, it seeks a mythology and to deminize further rebellion. Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. 11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. 13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. 14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
As Christian nation but not a confessional state. The Holy Roman Empire consisted of Christian nations (Germans, Czechs, et al) but no one faith was official. The United States as a whole had no established faith, but some of its members did, The people were, as a general matter, British Protestants, and so Christians of sorts. Not church affiliated as a whole, but by 1860, there was hardly a public official who was not, and the great majority of these belonged to some evangelical church.
It is as possible for one to have a Christian nation as to have an atheist one.
My error. It should read, The concept of a Christian nation is not found in the Bible, because Christianity is the way of freedom and liberty. Please see the original link for the revised article. http://vabible.wordpress.com/2014/10/05/was-america-founded-as-a-christian-nation/
I’m challenging the concept of, what is a Christian nation? The concept isn’t found in the Bible because is Christianity in this day and age (i.e. the Church dispensation) is not a political philosophy. Yes, America was founded by Christians, but they didn’t legislate Christianity into the Constitution, only freedom so that people are free to be Christians. They wanted everyone to be Christian, but they can’t force that through the State. Hence, America wasn’t founded as a Christian nation.
My error, in reply to your first comment. My error. It should read, The concept of a Christian nation is not found in the Bible, because Christianity is the way of freedom and liberty. Please see the original link for the revised article. http://vabible.wordpress.com/2014/10/05/was-america-founded-as-a-christian-nation/
I’m challenging the concept of, what is a Christian nation? The concept isn’t found in the Bible because is Christianity in this day and age (i.e. the Church dispensation) is not a political philosophy. Yes, America was founded by Christians, but they didn’t legislate Christianity into the Constitution, only freedom so that people are free to be Christians. They wanted everyone to be Christian, but they can’t force that through the State. Hence, America wasn’t founded as a Christian nation.
You can’t legislate morality, but people have tried. It works about as well as the Mosaic Law did. The responsibility for morality lies not in the state, but in the family.
Of course leftists will try to legislate morality and be judgmental. Most of them are without Christ. They know no other way than to coerce and manipulate. Of course all our lives are the worse for it. But it is part of the path of suffering for the Christian that God has marked out for us. The response is to win them to Christ, because there is no other way to transformation. From a Christian point of view, which this article is written in, just because the left is judgmental doesn’t make it okay for the right to be judgmental.
Even if everyone in a nation is a deeply devout, born-again Christian, and the President made daily remarks like this, doesn’t make it a Christian nation. Our commandments as a Church are to love on another and to make disciples, and this doesn’t come from a political institution. So, I totally understand that most of the population, including the founding fathers, were Christian, but this doesn’t make it a Christian nation, because you can’t force people to be Christian through legislation. That concept is not in the Bible. Rather, it is what radical Islam seeks to do in their own context.
Exactly, I wholeheartedly agree. Probably 95% of Americans were Christian at its founding, but you cannot force people to the faith through legislation. The best way to preserve Christianity from a political perspective is for freedom of religion.
Disagree - yes you can have an atheist nation (China), yes you can have an Islamic nation (Pakistan, Iran, among many others), but you cannot have a Christian nation, because Christianity is the way of freedom and cannot be legislated politically.
Apologies for the confusing statement, it has been amended in the original link over at http://vabible.wordpress.com/.
It is never permissible to have such a surface-level, legalistic, theocratic-government-forced dead moralistic Christian nation. The question was a rhetorical one. When I said it was impossible to have a Christian nation in “this day and age” I meant generally, as in since the Mosaic Law, not 21st century, etc.
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