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To: Resettozero
Hi. After his conversion to Christ, who was it that Paul had killed? (Since Paul was not a civil servant in obedience to Roman or other rulers' instructions, that would indeed be murder.)

Paul was not a man of many words but little or no authority. I accept the scriptures and find several occasions where the Apostle either pronounced sentence, or threatened to pronounce, sentence of death on other erstwhile believers.

  1. 1 Cor 5 -- clear death sentence; ambiguous ending (some hold the man who married his mother was restored although there is no clear indication the man in 2 Cor is the same man;)
  2. Gal 5 -- clear desire for a death sentence, but no one selected or named; perhaps due to jurisdiction, Peter being the Apostle to the Jews; indeed we see a Paul took the issue to the apostolic council in Jerusalem
  3. 1 Tim 1:20 -- similar to 1 Cor but naming names; perhaps they were Gentiles

2,845 posted on 10/21/2014 7:13:24 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981

Thank you for your civil response. Yes, I checked and all three passages you cited are indeed in the New Testament.

You conflate “turning over to Satan” with the murdering of those people. That is an incorrect assessment of Scripture, in all three instances.

I understand that you are fighting against the repentant sinner of 2 Cor being the same sinner as Paul instructed the Church at Corinth to “hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.” (How would this be done, apart from denying him fellowship with the believers.)

You are wrestling with the clear meanings of passages in the New Testament, not with my personal interpretation.


2,850 posted on 10/21/2014 7:28:10 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: af_vet_1981; Resettozero; boatbums; metmom; Springfield Reformer; CynicalBear; BlueDragon
I accept the scriptures and find several occasions where the Apostle either pronounced sentence, or threatened to pronounce, sentence of death on other erstwhile believers.

1 Cor 5 -- clear death sentence

1Cor. 5 is not at all a "clear" death sentence, unless you need it to be, as to be delivered over to the devil for chastisement has its only clear precedent in the story of Job, which was not unto death, but refinement of character

And as 1Cor. 11:32 teaches that "when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" - and which is only ever shown to be in this world/life, to which this text refers to- thus the incestuous man was chastened by allowing the devil to have at him, as God did to Job.

The Bible also teaches that the wicked are God's sword, (Psalms 17:13) which He used to chasten Israel with, and and as the devil is the god of this world, (2Co. 4:4) so to be delivered unto the devil could also mean oppression by the lost.

And as with any troubles, it can be for refinement of good character among the penitent, revealing things needed to be more like Christ, or to bring repentance unto getting back to walking in faith.

Gal 5 -- clear desire for a death sentence,

"I would they were even cut off which trouble you," (Galatians 5:12) is not a clear desire for a death sentence, though it may be if not wishing they would castrate themselves as your NAB renders it.

1 Tim 1:20 -- similar to 1 Cor but naming names; perhaps they were Gentiles

This is clearly not a desire for a death sentence, but to chastisement, "that they may learn not to blaspheme," which hardly beneficial by dying, while in 2Ti 2:17 they are charged with "saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."

But that capital punishment is Biblical is clear , and Paul warned that the civil powers had that power to use it justly, while the only means of such physical punishment for the church for its wars is spiritual, as I have shown you.

And which remains the issue, and the unwillingness thus far from what i have seen, to deny or affirm the torture of suspected "heretics" and even witnesses, and the killing of the former (even if the numbers of those killed by Inquisitions may have been exaggerated) which early Prots had to unlearn.

And of requiring Catholic rulers to exterminate the heretics, or else his subjects are no longer subject to his authority.

2,852 posted on 10/21/2014 8:13:49 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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