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To: NYer

I don’t understand the difference of a priest giving absolution for sins and Yeshua dying on the Cross for them. Either Yeshua died for our sins or He didn’t and therefore the need for a priest to do that?


10 posted on 11/15/2014 2:27:21 PM PST by SkyDancer (I Was Told Nobody Is Perfect But Yet, Here I Am)
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To: SkyDancer
The majority of Jews didn't understand the Messiah coming as a suffering servant rather than as a conquering lion so they rejected Christ.

Some people pray and earnestly seek Him, others prefer their personal preconceptions and in doing so create their own version of Christ to fit their preconceptions. When they come to something that doesn't fit their preconceptions they murmer and leave to join others who agree with them because what they came across was a hard saying. That's the folks who will be hearing, "I never knew you" from Christ Himself even though they may once have been disciples because they abandoned Christ when He didn't fit their preconceptions.

Wearing preconception glasses blinds you to the Truth in Scripture. Faith, then understanding.

12 posted on 11/15/2014 2:50:36 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: SkyDancer

Because, like the Baptism which itself ushers into the salvation of Christ, forgiveness takes a personal element to confer. The Church is about human agents acting in God’s name to carry out the purposes of the mission of the glory God.

And thus one cannot baptize themselves, another person has to say the words while pouring water over their heads. Similarly, one cannot be forgiven until a person with the authority to forgive sins in the name of Jesus says you are absolved.

Additionally, there are several places in scripture where Jesus specifically instructs the Apostles to forgive sins, and to have the authority in his name to do so.


16 posted on 11/15/2014 2:58:29 PM PST by Bayard
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To: SkyDancer
It's not the priest who forgives and absolves in Confession--- it's Christ. Jesus Christ is the One who acts in every Sacrament.

Everyone must, of course, confess to God on heir own as well There's no substitute for that. But5Confession to a priest also helps a sinner like me to objective about what they've done, but requiring me to say it out loud: to hear myself say it in an objective way. It is a srtong antitdote aainst our tendency to let ourselves too easily off the hook, to deceive ourselves (and there are 10,000 different ways for our crooked little hearts to do that.)

This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power "glorified God, who hadgiven such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men"). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23).

That indisputably involves confession to a person who can "hear" your sins, otherwise this verse would be meaningless.

17 posted on 11/15/2014 3:02:23 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Your father waits for thee...To wrap you in his healing hands...As the night sky weeps)
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To: SkyDancer

He died for our sins, but also to open up the gates to heaven, which had been closed up to that point. His dying on the cross doesn’t mean that we can go forward and sin with the thought that we will be automatically forgiven. I don’t think that is what the Lord had in mind at all. You still have to repent for your sins, you just can’t preplan to sin and say “Oh, well, it’s OK because I’ll be forgiven.”


20 posted on 11/15/2014 3:13:36 PM PST by murron (Proud Mom of a Marine Vet)
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To: SkyDancer; Bayard; Mrs. Don-o
I don’t understand the difference of a priest giving absolution for sins and Yeshua dying on the Cross for them. Either Yeshua died for our sins or He didn’t and therefore the need for a priest to do that?

Mrs. Don-o and Bayard have posted excellent responses. To what they have said, I would add the following. Is the Catholic who confesses his sins to a priest any better off than the non-Catholic who confesses directly to God? Yes. First, he seeks forgiveness the way Christ intended. Second, by confessing to a priest, the Catholic learns a lesson in humility, which is avoided when one confesses only through private prayer. Third, the Catholic receives sacramental graces the non-Catholic doesn’t get; through the sacrament of penance sins are forgiven and graces are obtained. Fourth, the Catholic is assured that his sins are forgiven (John 20:21–23); he does not have to rely on a subjective "feeling." Lastly, the Catholic can also obtain sound advice on avoiding sin in the future.

During his lifetime Christ sent out his followers to do his work. Just before he left this world, he gave the apostles special authority, commissioning them to make God’s forgiveness present to all people, and the whole Christian world accepted this, until just a few centuries ago. If there is an "invention" here, it is not the sacrament of penance, but the notion that the sacramental forgiveness of sins is not to be found in the Bible or in early Christian history.

21 posted on 11/15/2014 3:21:49 PM PST by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: SkyDancer

The priest’s absolution flows directly from Christ’s forgiveness of our sins.

It is easy for sinners to deceive themselves. It is helpful to take sins to an objective judge, who can give advice and encouragement. It is very encouraging to the penitent to receive absolution from this objective party to whom he has manifested his sins.

The Church is how Christ chose to remain in the world. It is his body—as he told Saul. “I am Jesus, and you are persecuting ME.” Of course, Saul was persecuting THE CHURCH.

When the priest gives absolution, it is Jesus who acts, making his forgiveness of our sins real in the present moment.


59 posted on 11/15/2014 8:31:08 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: SkyDancer

“I don’t understand the difference of a priest giving absolution for sins and Yeshua dying on the Cross for them.”

I do. Jesus died to forgive our sins. That forgiveness has to be applied to us. That’s what Baptism and Confession are for. The grace of Christ in Baptism washes away sins (Acts 22:16). The grace of Christ in Confession absolves sins (John 20:19-23; 2 Cor 2:10 in pre-1960s Bibles Catholic or Protestant).

“Either Yeshua died for our sins or He didn’t and therefore the need for a priest to do that?”

To apply what Christ won to each man who comes forward seeking it. Do you believe that a man must accept Christ to have his sins washed away? Most Protestants would readily agree with that idea. But why would that be necessary if your earlier (apparent) understanding is “Either Yeshua died for our sins or He didn’t”? Jesus died for our sins, but that doesn’t mean every human being is now going to go to Heaven no matter what - no natter whether they believe in Jesus or not, whether or not they’ve turned their life over to Him, etc.

It’s not hard to understand.


65 posted on 11/15/2014 9:47:36 PM PST by vladimir998
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