Posted on 11/21/2014 1:51:03 PM PST by Gamecock
Indeed. We must take in the full counsel of God.
If Jesus’ ministry ended at the end of Matthew chapter 5, no one would meet the standards for the Kingdom.
We should be seeing Christ’s ministry in light of the cross and empty tomb.
**That doesn’t say that anyone will be justified BY doing the law, but nevertheless only those that do the law will be justified.**
Are you sure you wrote that sentence the way you intended?
And Paul writing ‘rabbit trails’? No, He just was VERY thorough in his teaching. The problem is when people take things out of context. Some will take Romans 10:9 and toss aside Acts 2:38. Romans was written to people that had ALREADY been born again; addressing them as such in the first few verses; reminding them of their conversions in chapter 6. He addresses them as ‘brethern’ in 7:1, as being ‘not in the flesh, but in the Spirit’ in 8:9. And there are many other examples.
He addresses them in 10:1 as ‘brethern’ once again, telling them in 10:8 that ‘The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and IN THY HEART: that is, the word of faith, which we preach’. Yep, them folks were already born again.
10:10-15 reminds them that for others to believe, they must first hear, and that from a preacher sent from God.
Peter preached Christ, and him crucified, beginning on the day of Pentecost. When asked “What shall we do?” by the convicted souls, Peter replied, “Repent,” (this is where the ‘reformed’ bunch stops) “and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,” (then the ‘reformed’ bunch hops back in here) “and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost......”.
I would state more accurately John 1:1 proves Jesus Christ's Deity. As we see Paul explain here:
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.(KJV)
In using "Godhead" Paul clearly states Jesus Christ's Deity. In the Greek lexicon Godhead is theotes. And is the only time used.
I see our faith as the acceptance or receiving of the gift of God which is eternal life. He saves us because of, or by, His grace and then offers to us the imputation of the righteousness of Christ, rather than imputing our sins, to our souls whereby we are made righteous and justified. When someone is depending upon their own righteousness to save them, they can NEVER be assured of eternal life, but, our assurance comes from being found IN Christ, not having our own righteousness, but the righteousness of GOD in Christ.
>>If we are his, Yeshua writes his Torah on our hearts, which instruction in righteousness is what is to lead us toward righteousness. There is no “imputing” to be found in the word of God.<<
For everyone’s consumption. May it bless your day and evening:
Matthew 6:33 - But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
1 Peter 2:24 - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Isaiah 53:11 - He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Romans 4:24 - But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Romans 4:8 - Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Romans 1:16-17 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Read More...)
Acts 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
1 John 3:7 - Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Romans 5:18 - Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 4:5 - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 3:26 - To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 3:25 - Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 3:22 - Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 10:4 - For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
First of all, NOBODY denies Hebrews is a part of the word of God. It is because of God's grace that we can be counted righteous in Christ - and it is NOT our own righteousness, but the righteousness of GOD in Christ.
As for your contention that "imputing" or "imputation" of righteousness not being found in the Scriptures, you must have a redacted version because it is in there MANY times both speaking of our sins NOT being imputed to us as well as Christ's righteousness BEING imputed to our account. Does your Bible not have these verses it in:
Zuriel Wrote:Are you sure you wrote that sentence the way you intended?
Good point Zuriel, I forgot to respond to that, though maybe you understood it differently than I do. As currently worded, I don't disagree with his statement. Strictly speaking, those who "do the law," the law of Christ (as opposed to Torah) are justified. It is not the same as saying "we are justified by the law." In other words, grace produces good works, and is therefore characteristic of all those who are saved.
This is the only way we can ever interpret this in scripture, as the Word of God is quite clear on what the origin of good works is.
First: "For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"
2nd: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit,"
3rd: "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. "
And lastly: "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."
(1 Co 4:7, John 15:16, Php 2:13, Rom 4:4) The first and second verses plainly teach that good works, and all the evidence of grace, is given by God who "works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure." What God commands, He also gives to us freely -- although, this does not mean that we can live sinless lives, as Paul himself declares in Romans 7, near its latter end, the great conflict that exists between body and mind for the Christian. We are always "falling short" of the glory of God. The last verse makes it clear that no grace (and therefore justification) can come from works of any kind, as this would make salvation a wage for labor provided; as Augustine puts it:
“For who makes thee to differ, and what has thou that thou hast not received?” (1 Cor. iv. 7). Our merits therefore do not cause us to differ, but grace. For if it be merit, it is a debt; and if it be a debt, it is not gratuitous; and if it be not gratuitous, it is not grace. (Augustine, Sermon 293)
All salvation is of God from start to finish, and has nothing whatever to do with any internal works of man, nor with the amount of works he does, as if God possesses a scale of justice in heaven, weighing your evil works and your good works together. Christ's blood is all sufficient to wash away every sin, and all those who have not been washed by Christ's blood are damned, no matter how much they give to charity or abstain from bacon, like in editor-surveyor's case.
Ah I’m not in the Reformed congregation, but do know they baptize believers in Christ’s shed Blood, death and resurrection.
By your reasoning Paul would have proclaimed baptism is part of the Gospel message. In 1Corinthians 15, he lays out the definition of the Gospel message. No baptism there.
I think this is a lot easier to identify baptism’s linkage to saved by Grace. We see those who heard and believed the Gospel message move forward to be baptized. It is what Christ commanded and what we do.
And your formula, phased “happenings” to be saved is not monolithic in the NT. In Acts 2 we see people hear, believe and be baptized. Some (the disciples) received the Holy Spirit moments before the preaching of the Gospel; people then hearing Peter’s sermon, believing then baptized then Peter stating they will receive the Holy Spirit.
Then we have Acts 10 with Peter and Cornelius. We see in this chapter Cornelius and household hear the Gospel, believe, then receive the Holy Spirit and are baptized AFTER.
To be an Israelite one must be born first an Israelite. They the Israelite son is sealed in the covenant of circumcision 8 days later. Same connection with being born again and then sealed in the new covenant in baptism.
So in both cases, Acts 2 and 10, born again believers are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit or receive the Holy Spirit then are baptized.
This is not difficult. We should also not try to put an event timeline on this with our human minds.
This has been quite an enjoyable thread for me to read, though I don’t have anything to add myself.
THIS should be a fun thread!
2 Corinthians 5:17-20 17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18. All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19. that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them.
LOL
It appears that worked about as well as THIS:
Matthew 8:4
Then Jesus said to him, "See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them."
Is it different from:
1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written: “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.”
They DO?
Who knew!
I do not typically post on religious threads, but this one is intriguing.
I submit Acts 2 v. 38.
When one reads that, and what led up to it, awareness becomes possible.
Most will not,and for more than 4 decades, I have seen typically hostility, indifference, or denial.
It says what it says.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] [d] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.
I suspect many people glance over the "unto all and upon all" phrase.
The passage also does not use the preposition, "in" vice "of" when ascribing whose faith is sourced for righteousness.
Rom 3:21-26 (21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: (23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
The "UNTO" preposition highlights the source of faith and direction to "ALL", while the "UPON" preposition emphasizes the destination of those who have received His faith, i.e. believers. The unto group is larger than the upon group, but the faith sent by Him is the same faith.
It helps to draw a sketch of the source (Jesus Christ), with a point, line, and arrow to the recipient. The believers are the UPON recipient, while the UNTO comes from the point of the ray, directed to everybody.
There may also be an identification of saving faith with the faith of Christ within believers, with Romans 3:22 recognizing there is no difference in that faith.
This also is a good reference verse in studying unlimited atonement. Forgiveness is received by believers, while the atonement made by Christ on the Cross is for "ALL".
This is further amplified by Rom 3:26, where righteousness and justice are discussed.
The Old Testament Tabernacle furnishing in the Holy of Holies comes to mind. His Holiness = His Righteousness + His Justice, as manifest by the 2 cherubim facing one another on the Holy Seat atop the Arc of the Covenant. One angel represented His Perfect Righteousness and the other His Perfect Justice, together forming His Perfect Holiness. (so Rom 3:26 has rich meaning)
They look over the Mercy Seat where the blood of Christ covers the sin within the Arc of the Covenant, (Aaron's rod that budded, the broken pieces of the tablets, and the pot of manna).
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