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To: redleghunter

**By your reasoning Paul would have proclaimed baptism is part of the Gospel message. In 1Corinthians 15, he lays out the definition of the Gospel message. No baptism there.**

1Cor. 15:29, “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”

First of all, as you know, the theme in chapter 15 is about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And that if He has not risen, then no one else is going to see a resurrection. And all the baptisms are vain. Why be baptized into Christ (who died), and into his body of believers (many who have died), if Christ is not risen.

Furthermore, Paul is writing to persons that are already born again: “UNTO the CHURCH of God which is at Corinth, to THEM that are SANCTIFIED in Christ Jesus, CALLED to be SAINTS....”. 1Cor. 1:2

Paul indeed taught water baptism, making it clear that it wasn’t his sole mission (1:17), yet pointing out that he did baptize several personally (vss 14,16). The scriptures don’t go into detail about everyone’s converversion. Paul met Aquila and Priscilla, and there is no mention of their conversion, yet you know it surely happened, for they go on to witness to Apollos in Acts 18. Paul re-baptized certain disciples in Ephesus in Acts 19.

Note Paul’s own conversion: Ananias to Paul: “And why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” Acts 22:16

Philip taught the Acts 2:38 message: “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself was baptized also....Now when the apostles...heard...they sent unto them Peter and John. Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For AS YET, he was fallen on NONE OF THEM. ONLY they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.” Acts 8:12-17

**Then we have Acts 10 with Peter and Cornelius. We see in this chapter Cornelius and household hear the Gospel, believe, then receive the Holy Spirit and are baptized AFTER.**

Below is a comparison of the conversion events in Acts 10, and the Acts 11 testamony of Peter, back in Jerusalem:

The Holy Ghost falls:
10:44 “While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them that heard the word.”
11:15 “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them...”

The witness:
10:45,46 “And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles ALSO was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God..”.
11:15 “..fell on them, AS ON US at the beginning.”

The declaration of that witness:

10:47 “...which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we.”
11:17 “Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did onto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ..”.

Did you notice that I left out the last three words of 10:46, and the first part of 10:47; and, that I left out the last part of 11:17?

That’s because there is a challenge given in both cases:
10:46,47 “..Then answered Peter. Can any man..” (including Peter himself) “..forbid water, that these should not be baptized...”.
11:17 “What was I, that I could withstand God?” (yes, I believe Peter was faced with God’s command of baptizing them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and HAD TO DO IT. “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord...”. 10:48

It’s about a MAN being born again, of the water and the Spirit, as Jesus taught Nicodemas, in John 3.


68 posted on 11/22/2014 10:28:24 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: Zuriel

I did not argue Paul and other apostles did not preach water baptism. Somehow you are thinking I am. I pointed out the Gospel message was not baptism but what baptism points to. The death and Resurrection of Christ Jesus. You pointed out this such in your last post.

My underlying point was water does not justify us but we are justified by faith in Christ’s finished work. Baptism, akin to circumcision is the seal of the covenant. Abraham was justified before circumcision.


84 posted on 11/22/2014 3:16:49 PM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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