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Did Adam and Eve Really Exist?
Crisis Magazine ^ | November 24, 2014 | DENNIS BONNETTE

Posted on 11/24/2014 1:07:14 PM PST by NYer

the-fall-of-man-hendrick-goltzius

Pure myth! That is today’s typical view of a literal Adam and Eve. Yet, contrary to current skepticism, a real Adam and Eve remain credible—both in terms of Catholic doctrine and sound natural science.

By calling the Genesis story a “myth,” people avoid saying it is mere “fantasy,” that is, with no foundation in reality at all. While rejecting a literal first pair of human parents for all mankind, they hope to retain some “deeper” truth about an original “sinful human condition,” a “mythic” meaning. They think that the latest findings in paleoanthropology and genetics render a literal pair of first true human parents to be “scientifically impossible.”

The prevailing assumption underlying media reports about human origins is that humanity evolved very gradually over vast periods of time as a population (a collection of interbreeding organisms), which itself originally evolved from a Homo/Pan (human/chimpanzee) common ancestor millions of years ago. Therefore, we are not seen as descendants of the biblical Adam and Eve.

This universal evolutionary perspective leads many Catholics and others to conclude that a literal Adam and Eve is “scientifically impossible” for two reasons: First, paleoanthropologists deny the sudden appearance of intelligent, self-reflective, fully-human primates, but rather view the emergence of consciousness and intelligence as taking place slowly and incrementally over long periods of time. Second, in light of recent findings in molecular biology, especially from studies based on genetic data gleaned from the Human Genome Project, it is claimed that the hominin population (the primate group from which modern man is said to have arisen) has never had a bottleneck (reduced population) of a single mating pair in the last seven or more million years: no literal Adam and Eve. Many succumb to the modernist tendency to “adjust” Church teaching to fit the latest scientific claims—thus intimidating Catholics into thinking that divinely revealed truths can be abandoned—“if need be.”

This skepticism of a literal Adam and Eve begs for four much needed corrections.

First, Church teaching about Adam and Eve has not, and cannot, change. The fact remains that a literal Adam and Eve are unchanging Catholic doctrine. Central to St. Paul’s teaching is the fact that one man, Adam, committed original sin and that through the God-man, Jesus Christ, redemption was accomplished (Romans 5:12-21; 1 Cor. 15: 21-22). In paragraphs 396-406, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, speaks of Adam and Eve as a single mating pair who “committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state” (CCC, 404). “Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back toward God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle” (CCC, 405). The doctrines surrounding original sin cannot be altered “without undermining the mystery of Christ” (CCC, 389).

Today, many think that Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Humani generis did not definitively exclude theological polygenism. What they fail to notice, though, is that the Holy Father clearly insists that Scripture and the Magisterium affirm that original sin “proceeds from a sin truly committed by one Adam [ab uno Adamo]” and that this sin is transmitted to all true human beings through generation (para. 37). This proves that denial of a literal Adam (and his spouse, Eve) as the sole first genuinely human parents of all true human beings is not theologically tenable.

Second, rational human nature itself requires that mankind made an instant appearance on planet Earth. Paleoanthropological claims of gradual appearance of specifically human traits fail to comport with a true philosophy of human nature. Reflecting classical Christian thought, St. Thomas Aquinas demonstrates that true man is distinguished essentially from lower animals by possession of an intellectual and immortal soul, which possesses spiritual powers of understanding, judgment, and reasoning (Summa theologiae I, 75). While these qualitatively superior abilities are manifested through special forms of tool making or culture or art, they need not always be evident in the paleontological record. Sometimes true men share mere animal survival behavior and sometimes truly human behavior is lost to modern sight due to the ravages of time. What matters is that genuinely spiritual powers are either present or not, and that these alone bespeak the presence of true man. Irrational animals, including subhuman primates, are capable of complex sentient behaviors often approaching or imitating the rational activities of true man. But an animal either possesses a spiritual, intellectual soul or not. Thus at some point in time, true man suddenly appears—whether visible to modern science or not. Before that time, all subhuman behavior manifests merely material sensory abilities. The fact that positivistic scientists cannot discern the first presence of true man is hardly remarkable.

Third, a correct understanding of the scientific (inductive) method reveals that it cannot ever logically exclude the possibility of two sole founders of humanity. Natural scientific studies employ the inductive method of reasoning. Empirically observed data is employed to form testable hypotheses. Molecular biologists use computer models in an attempt to validate such hypotheses and reach conclusions about genetic conditions in early primate populations. In this process, some researchers have committed the logically invalid move of inferring from particular data to the universally negative claim that a literal Adam and Eve is impossible. Such methodology produces, at best, solely probable conclusions, based on available evidence and the assumptions used to evaluate the data. There is the inherent possibility that an unknown factor will alter the conclusion, similarly as was the unexpected discovery of black swans in Australia, when the whole world “knew” all swans were white.

Fourth, specific scientific arguments against Adam and Eve have proven not as forceful as many presently believe (Gauger 2012). For example, some have claimed that effective population size estimates for the last several million years would not permit just two true humans to have lived during that time. Still, the technical concept of average effective population size estimates should not be confused with an actual “bottleneck” (a temporarily reduced population) which may be much smaller. Effective population size estimates can vary from as high as 14,000 (Blum 2011) to as low as 2,000 (Tenesa 2007), depending on the methods used.

Such calculations rely upon many assumptions about mutation rate, recombination rate, and other factors, that are known to vary widely. All of this entails retrospective calculations about events in the far distant past, for which we have no directly verifiable data. For such reasons, some experts have concluded that effective population size cannot be determined using DNA sequence differences alone (Sjödin 2005; Hawks 2008).

Indeed, the most famous genetic study proclaimed as a “scientific objection” to Adam and Eve turned out to be based on methodological errors. An article by geneticist Francisco J. Ayala appearing in the journal, Science (1995), led many to believe that a founding population of only two individuals was impossible. Ayala based his challenge to monogenism (two sole founders of humanity) on the large number of versions (alleles) of the particular gene HLA-DRB1, which are present in the current population. Accepting the common ancestor theory, he claimed that there were thirty-two ancient lineages of the HLA-DRB1 gene prior to the Homo/Pan split (approximately seven million years ago). Over time, these “pre-split” lineages, themselves, evolved into the new additional versions present today. Because each individual carries only two versions of a gene, a single founding pair could not have passed on the thirty-two versions that Ayala claimed existed some seven million years ago—either at that time or at any time since. A bottleneck of just two true humans, Adam and Eve, was “scientifically impossible.”

However, Ayala’s claim of thirty-two ancient HLA-DRB1 lineages (prior to the Homo/Pan split) was wrong because of methodological errors. The number of lineages was subsequently adjusted by Bergström (1998) to just seven at the time of the split, with most of the genetic diversity appearing in the last 250,000 years. A still later study coming out of Bergström’s group inferred that just four such lineages existed more than five million years ago, but that a few more appeared soon thereafter (von Salomé 2007). While two mating hominins can transmit four lineages, the few additional later ones still require explanation.

These genetic studies, based on many assumptions and use of computer models, do not tell us how the origin of the human race actually took place. But, they do show (1) that methodological limitations and radical contingency are inherent in such studies, which are employed to make retroactive judgments about deeply ancient populations that can never be subject to direct observation, and (2) that present scientific claims against the possibility of a literal Adam and Eve are not definitive (Gauger 2012, 105-122).

Philosopher Kenneth W. Kemp and others have suggested that interbreeding between true humans and subhuman primates in the same biological population might account for presently observed genetic diversity (Kemp 2011). Such interbreeding is not to be confused with the marriages between true human siblings and cousins which would have occurred in the first generations following Adam and Eve, which unions were a necessary part of God’s plan for the initial propagation of mankind (Gen. 1:28).

The difficulty with any interbreeding solution (save, perhaps, in rare instances) is that it would place at the human race’s very beginning a severe impediment to its healthy growth and development. Natural law requires that marriage and procreation take place solely between a man and a woman, so that children are given proper role models for adult life. So too, even if the union between a true human and a subhuman primate were not merely transitory, but lasting, the defective parenting and role model of a parent who is not a true human being would introduce serious disorder in the proper functioning of the family and education of children. Hence, widespread interbreeding is not an acceptable solution to the problem of genetic diversity.

Moreover, given the marked reduction in the number of ancient HLA-DRB1 alleles found by the later genetic studies of Bergström and von Salomé, it may turn out that no interbreeding is needed at all, or at most, that very rare instances of it may have occurred. Such rare events might not even entail the consent of true human beings, since they could result from an attack by a subhuman male upon a non-consenting human female.

A literal Adam and Eve remains rationally, scientifically credible.

Since the same God is author both of human reason and of authentic revelation, legitimate natural science, properly conducted, will never contradict Catholic doctrine, properly understood. Catholic doctrine still maintains that a literal Adam and Eve must have existed, a primal couple who committed that personal original sin, which occasioned the need for, and the divine promise of, the coming of the Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

Editor’s note: The image above is a detail from “The Fall of Man” painted by Hendrik Goltzius in 1616.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Science; Theology
KEYWORDS: adam; adamandeve; creation; crevo; crevolist; eve; evolution; fazalerana; gardenofeden; genesis; hughross; originalparents; origins
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To: Partisan Gunslinger
Now "it COULD be"? That has been our argument all along - that God ALWAYS has a remnant! It has been you, parroting Arnold Murray, who continues to assert it will only be 7000.

Arnold has also said it doesn't have to be exactly 7000. The "7000" identifies the people we're talking about, the very elect. You let these little things become such stumblingblocks to you.

All anyone needs to do is read over this thread and all the times you kept INSISTING Romans 11:4 specifically said only 7000 and your assertion that was what Murray taught. Every time you were disputed by Scripture - and there were many - you kept going back to that number and how "what once was will be again". I don't think I'm the one tripping over anything here. It's no skin off my nose whether you believe me or not. All I've been trying to do is say what I believe and why I believe it. You are the one who seems to be unable to tolerate disagreement here and who imagines he is being persecuted. You've more than amply set up stumbling blocks of your own and prove with every subsequent comment you don't really know how to avoid tripping over them.

901 posted on 11/30/2014 3:55:48 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: CatherineofAragon

Its still running!


902 posted on 11/30/2014 4:02:27 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Partisan Gunslinger
Show me where I did that, whiner.

Racist, cult, same difference.

Didn't think you could. And, no, racist and cultist are NOT the same difference.

903 posted on 11/30/2014 4:02:44 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Elsie
"777?

You HAVE to be kidding me!"

Redemption from 666, LOL?

If I post here for the next fifty years, that will never happen again.

904 posted on 11/30/2014 4:20:18 PM PST by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization.))
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To: CatherineofAragon
No, you didn't. You said you'd never heard of it, and when I told you it was easily found online, said, "Okaaaay." So far you've dismissed everything folks have offered you about your leader. What reason do I have to think you'd respond differently this time? Google it if you want the truth.

I don't really care. He's studied for 60 years, that's a doctor to me whether a university says so or not.

905 posted on 11/30/2014 4:27:52 PM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: boatbums
All anyone needs to do is read over this thread and all the times you kept INSISTING Romans 11:4 specifically said only 7000 and your assertion that was what Murray taught.

Romans 11:4 does say 7000. As I said way back on this thread, it could be in the hundreds of thousands. The 7000 number is just an identifier. It is a stumblingblock to you.

Every time you were disputed by Scripture - and there were many - you kept going back to that number and how "what once was will be again". I don't think I'm the one tripping over anything here. It's no skin off my nose whether you believe me or not. All I've been trying to do is say what I believe and why I believe it. You are the one who seems to be unable to tolerate disagreement here and who imagines he is being persecuted.

I've called no one a racist, cult member, a white supremacist, an incinerator of children, or a server of koolaid, yet all of those have been hurled or insinuated at me on no evidence. Yeah, I'd call that persecution. lol I'd say with all the name calling from your side it is you all that can't handle disagreement.

You've more than amply set up stumbling blocks of your own and prove with every subsequent comment you don't really know how to avoid tripping over them.

Name one.

906 posted on 11/30/2014 4:36:59 PM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: boatbums
Didn't think you could. And, no, racist and cultist are NOT the same difference.

Same in the eyes of the moderators. The purpose was to silence disagreement.

907 posted on 11/30/2014 4:38:16 PM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: Partisan Gunslinger
I don't really care."

We see that.

Your so-called man of God doesn't need to meet any standards. You even excuse lying.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

908 posted on 11/30/2014 5:04:46 PM PST by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization.))
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To: Partisan Gunslinger
quote out of context much? I said preferred over political correctness.

Dang...

There's an ECHO in here!


>...and you did NOT reject them; but said they were PREFERED.

909 posted on 11/30/2014 5:45:29 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Partisan Gunslinger
No proof was posted.

Says the fella who seems to have a hard time posting 'proof'.

910 posted on 11/30/2014 5:47:03 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Partisan Gunslinger
A false prediction, not a false prophecy. We've all done it.

Modifying words to mask the truth.

Liberals do it a lot.

It's called PC.

911 posted on 11/30/2014 5:50:00 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums
Sad, isn’t it, when so-called “Christian” Conservatives resort to the same deceptive techniques as the Left?

They've seen how well they work; against folks who are unaware of them.

Quite possibly these CCs do not SEE themselves doing the same thing.

912 posted on 11/30/2014 5:52:39 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Partisan Gunslinger
Racist, cult, same difference.

There you go again.

Trying to show that completely different words can be used to describe something.

It ain't working here.

Find a new audience.

913 posted on 11/30/2014 5:55:42 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Partisan Gunslinger
 

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,
' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'  


914 posted on 11/30/2014 5:56:13 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: CatherineofAragon
If I post here for the next fifty years, that will never happen again.

I don't know.

The math suggests it IS likely!

Let google search foir THIS:


https://www.google.com/search?q=freerepublic.com+777+elsie&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&gws_rd=ssl#rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&q=freerepublic.com+%22777+posted%22+elsie

915 posted on 11/30/2014 6:06:17 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Just mythoughts; boatbums

>>People who claim that all peoples walking this earth today came from Adam and Eve are biblically ignorant.<<

Genesis 4 King James Version (KJV)

4 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Genesis 5 King James Version (KJV)

5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:

7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:

8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.

9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:

10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:

11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.

12 And Cainan lived seventy years and begat Mahalaleel:

13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:

14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.

15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:

16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:

17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.

18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:

19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.

21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:

22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.

26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:

27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:

29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed.

30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:

31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.

32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.(KJV)


916 posted on 11/30/2014 10:29:27 PM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: Just mythoughts

If the big secret no one knows but Murrayites is the antichrist is from Satan, then get your money back from buying his videos and tapes.

Your fellow Murrayite said the 7000 would be the ONLY ones to identify the antichrist. But you just pointed out scriptures any 12 yr old in Sunday school can point out.


917 posted on 11/30/2014 10:33:48 PM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: Just mythoughts; boatbums

I think the “rapture blanket” folks would realize real quick the corruptable body remaining would be a huge hint it’s not Jesus Christ.

Are you saying the rapture, the translation the caught up is not clearly shown in Scriptures?


918 posted on 11/30/2014 10:40:05 PM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: Just mythoughts; editor-surveyor; boatbums

>>The correct quote is “I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal..” Paul is quoting IKings 19:10-18. God Himself has reserved to Himself ‘seven thousand men’.

Then Paul goes on to quote Isaiah 29:10 “God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear:;) unto this day......

Reason: Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.<<

I suggest you read Romans 9-11 to fully grasp the context. Paul is addressing Israelites of the physical nation. He is not discussing the church at all. So are you of Hebrew origin? If so the then it applies if not you are a Gentile or Jew who is part of Christ’s church.

This is where you explain to me identity theology? Somehow the Anglo Americans are the true Israel?


919 posted on 11/30/2014 10:46:52 PM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: Partisan Gunslinger; boatbums

>>Rom 11:4 says that only 7000 will not fall for antiChrist.<<

No it does not:

Romans 11 King James Version (KJV)

11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.(KJV)

See verse 5.


920 posted on 11/30/2014 10:58:52 PM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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