Pope prays in Istanbul mosque in new outreach

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-visits-iconic-religious-sites-istanbul-073647316.html ^

[piusv]

ISTANBUL (AP) — Pope Francis stood Saturday for two minutes of silent prayer facing east in one of Turkey's most important mosques, a powerful vision of Christian-Muslim understanding at a time when neighboring countries are experiencing violent Islamic assault on Christians and religious minorities.

[imardmd1]

I assumed that the fools from Yahoo News would assume that east always points to Mecca.

In the Holy Scriptures "the Easts," where the wise men honoring Jesus cane from, is Anatolia, which in Greek means "East." And that is what is, in the language of the Engs "Turkey," which mainland is to the east of Istanbul. Facing east would be facing Haran, from whence Abraham departed as Elohim led him to His earthly possession.

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, , , ," (Mt. 2:1 AV).

του δε ιησου γεννηθεντος εν βηθλεεμ της ιουδαιας εν ημεραις ηρωδου του βασιλεως ιδου μαγοι απο ανατολων παρεγενοντο εις ιεροσολυμα (Mt. 2:1 TR)

Turkey is titled Anatolia geographically because it is to the east of Greece, and it is the land over which the Greeks battled Persia for dominance. Apostle Paul also called it "Asia," when the whole land, governed by the Romans, was evangelized for Christ.

And now, the Roman Pope Frances stands in the middle of the Holy Wisdom (Hagia Sophia) church house, which captured and taken over by the Muslims. In it he cannot even speak aloud personally to the Jehovah of the Bible lest he mortally offend the Mohammedans.

So who seems to be in control here? Is he embarrassed to be in this position? Will not the Muslims tout this to claim to their believers that Christianity is superseded when the Pope acquiesces?

Will this bring . . . peace?

[Biggirl]

Thank-you and God Bless.

[ebb tide]

Upon his election to the papacy, Francis would not even give a visible blessing of a secular crowd with the Sign of the Cross for fear of offending “non-believers”.

Francis hides his pectoral cross when convening with Jews.

Francis told an atheist newspaper that he did wish to convert him to Catholicism, forced or otherwise.

These are not a signs of “proselytism” nor “evangelization”.

[onyx]

Oh dear and for crying out loud.
God bless and keep Pope Benedict XVI.

[caww]

[Mrs. Don-o]

No. Mecca is in Saudi Arabia. The Blue Mosque is in Turkey. The Pope folded his hands in prayer over his pectoral cross (that's the cross he wears in front) and prayed silently for two minutes to Jesus Christ Our Lord.

Because that's Who Catholics pray to. You know that.

[Bryanw92]

>>Will this bring . . . peace?

It will bring Dar al Islam, which is a kind of peace through submission. Only Jesus Christ brings true peace, and this so-called “Vicar of Christ” does not seem to believe that.

[Wisconsinlady]

http://www.amazon.com/Petrus-Romanus-Final-Pope-Here/dp/0984825614

A very interesting and thought-provoking book.

[Mrs. Don-o]

He had his hand on his pectoral cross.
Caption: Pope Francis in Istanbul. Source: Telegraph, UK

[daniel1212]

For the evangelical such as being invited to a christening, in the light of the deformation y of Rome, including holding even prosodomite proabortion proMusliom pols as members in life and in death:

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (Ephesians 5:7-8)

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. (Ephesians 5:11)

But Rome has already shown he can interpret herself, and are told not to engage in interpretation, but look to the interpreter, while dissenters interpret the interpreter.

VEHEMENTER NOS, Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906:

It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock, those who occupy a rank in the different degrees of the hierarchy and the multitude of the faithful. So distinct are these categories that... the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors.

St. Ignatius once said that should the Pope command him to undertake a voyage by sea in a ship without a mast, without oars or sails, he would blindly obey the precept. And when he was told that it would be imprudent to expose his life to danger, he answered that prudence is necessary in Superiors; but in subjects the perfection of prudence is to obey without prudence. - St. Alphonsus De Liguori, True Spouse of Christ, p. 68 http://wallmell.webs.com/LiguoriTrueSpouseChristVol1.pdf

Rome on separation:

► No one shall join in prayers with heretics or schismatics. – Council of Laodicea, can 29; http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htm

► * Do not converse with heretics even for the sake of defending the faith, for fear lest their words instil their poison in your mind. Bl. Isaias Boner of Krakow (Polish, Augustinian priest, theologian, professor of Scripture, d. 1471)

► “the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith they once received, either by corrupting the faith, as heretics, or by entirely renouncing the faith, as apostates, because the Church pronounces sentence of excommunication on both.” St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica; http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3010.htm

► So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics... - (Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, 7,8,10 )

► How does a Catholic sin against faith? A Catholic sins against Faith by Apostasy, heresy, indifferentism and by taking part in non-Catholic worship." (Catechism of the Council of Trent, and the Baltimore Catechism)

► "It is not permitted at all for the faithful to assist in any active manner at or to have any part in the worship of non-Catholics." 1917 Code of Canon Law [Canon 1258]

► Can. 17 “If priests, deacons, and inferior clerics complain of a sentence of their own bishop, they shall, with the consent of their bishop, have recourse to the neighboring bishops, who shall settle the dispute. If they desire to make a further appeal, it must only be to their primates or to African Councils. But whoever appeals to a court on the other side of the sea (Rome), may not again be received into communion by any one in Africa.” (Council of Carthage To Investigate Pelagianism, MAY 1, 418: http://www.seanmultimedia.com/Pie_Council_Of_Carthage_May_1_418.html)

►"One must neither pray nor sing psalms with heretics, and whoever shall communicate with those who are cut off from the communion of the Church, whether clergy or layman: let him be excommunicated". (not found: Council of Carthage)

►"No one shall pray in common with heretics and schismatics" - Council of Laodicea.

► Second Vatican Council, Unitatis Redintegratio: In certain circumstances, such as prayers ‘for unity’ and during ecumenical gatherings, it is allowable, indeed desirable that Catholics should join in prayer with their separated brethren. Such prayers in common are certainly an effective means of obtaining the grace of unity, and they are a true expression of the ties which still bind Catholics to their separated brethren. "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." -http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

► Ad Totam Ecclesiam, A Catholic "may take part in the common responses, hymns and actions" of the community in question, "so long as they are not at variance with Catholic faith." -http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/thomas-crean/praying-with-non-catholics.htm ► Rome, Italy, Feb 19, 2010 / 02:03 pm (CNA).- The president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Cardinal Walter Kasper, announced this week that Pope Benedict XVI will visit the Evangelical Lutheran Church located in Rome on March 14 for an ecumenical celebration.

[steve86]

prayed silently for two minutes to Jesus Christ Our Lord.

You're always rebuffing me for statements I make, for example, that some heinous public figure is probably going to hell. You'll rhetorically question "How do you KNOW that?".

Now, I'm asking you: How do YOU know that?

The fact that both of us are probably correct is not the issue.

[Mrs. Don-o]

How many you want? I've got dozens here:

"Inspired also by the celebration of the Year of Faith, all of us together, pastors and members of the faithful, will strive to respond faithfully to the Church's perennial mission: to bring Jesus Christ to mankind and to lead mankind to an encounter with Jesus Christ, the way, the truth and the life, truly present in the Church and also in every person." – POpe Francis, Audience with the College of Cardinals, March 15

"Ours is not a joy born of having many possessions, but from having encountered a Person, Jesus, in our midst; it is born from knowing that with him we are never alone, even at difficult moments, even when our life's journey comes up against problems and obstacles that seem insurmountable, and there are so many of them! And in this moment the enemy, the devil, comes, often disguised as an angel, and slyly speaks his word to us. Do not listen him! Let us follow Jesus!" – Homily, March 24

"Christ opened the path to us. He is like a roped guide climbing a mountain who, on reaching the summit, pulls us up to him and leads us to God. If we entrust our life to him, if we let ourselves be guided by him, we are certain to be in safe hands, in the hands of our Savior, of our advocate." – Audience, April 17

"Being Christian is not just obeying orders but means being in Christ, thinking like him, acting like him, loving like him; it means letting him take possession of our life and change it, transform it, and free it from the darkness of evil and sin. ... Let us show the joy of being children of God, the freedom that living in Christ gives us which is true freedom, the freedom that saves us from the slavery of evil, of sin and of death!" – Audience, April 10

[daniel1212]

Whenever you put it in religion you put everyone at risk of being banned by the religion moderators. The religion moderators do not tolerate ideas that differ from theirs.

What a creep, posting to the religion mods on a non-religion thread.

Are you serious? I read "It’s current events in religion...so that’s why I put it in the RF," while you are the one who brought up the work of religion moderators, so it is you should have pinged them, as i should have, and thus did.

Or is only your view allowed?

[caww]

..."I left the RCC a long time ago for various reasons. This pope’s actions confirms I made the right decision"....

Unfortunately it's not just the Catholic Pope who's going down that road.....Jesus said this time would come.....and we're watching it be gathered together....

[Roman_War_Criminal]

Yes, very true!

[caww]

Here's some others too

[daniel1212]

Your kind of creepy fascist behavior is exactly why I avoid the religion threads like the plague.

Now its fascist to have conditional regard toward authorities? There is an ultimate One that all will face, and I hope at least you have no animosity toward Him.

But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. (Luke 19:14)

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. (Luke 19:27)

[Mrs. Don-o]

First, the statement against "proselytism" was not a direct quote, it was in the first notorious Scalfari "interview" that Scalfari admitted did not have a single direct quote in it. (But what an endless trove for people who want pseudoquotes!!)

Secons, "proselytism" is a term in civil and criminal law in many countries, including some in South America and in the EU, which denotes making converts by fraud, threat, manipulation or bribery. Legally, it is defined as an offense. By connotation, and in colloqial speech, it suggests underhanded or overly aggressive "market share" techniques.

This, Pope Francis has contrasted with "Evangelization," which he strongly supports. Heck, his first encyclical, Evangelii Gaudium, was an extended plea for evangelization.

Here ya go, Ten good quotes from Evangelii Gaudium.(LINK)

I know you'll find it fascinating.

[Mrs. Don-o]

You are confusing proselytism with evangelization. These terms have experienced a certain semantic splt in modern times, especially as proselytism has criminal connotation in some legal systems, an thus has acquired a bad connotation even in casual speech.

[paladinan]

Re: post #73:

Oh, come now. The “Whenever you put it in religion...” quote was decidedly NOT posted here in the religion forum... which was what made your rather bizarre “shotgun method of pings” very crass. You certainly came across as someone who was saying, in a voice loud enough for all the relevant parties to hear, “WHAT? YOU SAID THAT [X] WAS WHAT? ([X], did you hear that? I’ll ping you, just to be sure!) I HAVE NO IDEA WHY *ANYBODY* WOULD SAY SUCH A THING!”

Puerile.