this is how far and wide the divide is between Catholics and protestants:
my very Catholic wife was asked very sincerely by a protestant mother where she went to “fellowship” on the Lords Day
first of all my wife was an English major and to take a noun and make it a verb was the height of gauche
but the best part was when she said she doesn’t ‘fellowship’ any where with anyone on the Lords Day that we attend Mass and receive the Eucharist on the Lords Day- doing exactly as He commanded us to.
I am so proud of my wife and I hope it gives you some idea as to the difference between us.
John6:53 abut 90AD
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54Whoever eats* my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.b 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”
From the First Apology of Justin Martyr in 155AD
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
CHAPTER LXVI — OF THE EUCHARIST.
And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.
CHAPTER LXVII — WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRISTIANS.
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
This is what we experienced this Sunday Dec 14
http://catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/RM3-EP1-4.htm
On the day before he was to suffer he took bread in his holy and venerable hands, and with eyes raised to heaven to you, O God, his almighty Father, giving you thanks he said the blessing, broke the bread and gave it to his disciples, saying:
TAKE THIS, ALL OF YOU, AND EAT OF IT: FOR THIS IS MY BODY WHICH WILL BE GIVEN UP FOR YOU.
In a similar way, when supper was ended, he took this precious chalice in his holy and venerable hands, and once more giving you thanks, he said the blessing and gave the chalice to his disciples, saying:
TAKE THIS, ALL OF YOU, AND DRINK FROM IT: FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD, THE BLOOD OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL COVENANT, WHICH WILL BE POURED OUT FOR YOU AND FOR MANY FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS. DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME.
- We proclaim your Death, O Lord, and profess your Resurrection until you come again.
Therefore, O Lord, as we celebrate the memorial of the blessed Passion, the Resurrection from the dead, and the glorious Ascension into heaven of Christ, your Son, our Lord, we, your servants and your holy people, offer to your glorious majesty, from the gifts that you have given us, this pure victim, this holy victim, this spotless victim, the holy Bread of eternal life and the Chalice of everlasting salvation.
Be pleased to look upon these offerings with a serene and kindly countenance, and to accept them, as you were pleased to accept the gifts of your servant Abel the just, the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in faith, and the offering of your high priest Melchizedek, a holy sacrifice, a spotless victim.
Through him, and with him, and in him, O God, almighty Father, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, for ever and ever.
Amen.
CATHOLICS....
JUST CONTINUOUSLY DOING WHAT HE COMMANDED US TO DO SINCE HOLY THURSDAY
Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam
Eating blood was considered a sin by God and He commanded it not be done. Why would you assign to Jesus the act of sinning and Him causing others to do so?
and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished,which one could (should?) note appears to suggest the transmutation is in finalization of the process, associated with being nourished, even internally so, with J.M. there speaking of the flesh and blood of those whom partake of this bread "by transmutation" being "nourished" while not there saying it be by power and authority of a set-apart priest whom by powers of invocation himself perform that function of "transmuting", with J.M. interestingly enough there also, following his own mention of communion as celebrated among Christians, making negative mention towards Mithra cultists who's worship included symbolic re-enactment of Mithra slaying the bull, meeting with Sol (the Sun) and sharing meal of the bull's flesh with Sol. To me, that aspect of Mithra-ism hearkens back to ancient Mesopotamia and Gilgamesh slaying of the bull of Heaven...
Yet there, even as Justin Martyr speaks of the flesh (of Christ) I would consider that he being speaking of Spirit even as also speaking directly towards the real world, sacramental reality of that portion of Christian communion and fellowship with one another and Christ all together...with this also of course having come about by Christ's own real and actual flesh and blood sacrifice which is being among Christians, sacramentally memorialized.
I notice too, that in your own citing from John 6, there is much missing from that chapter (and elsewhere too perhaps) which can reveal what this "flesh and blood" which Christ was speaking of being His own consisted of then, and how that returns again to us in Eucharist, Holy Communion, the Lord's Supper or more simply and in leaner manner of wording said to be 'communion' referring to church service, consecration of the bread & wine, and the partaking of that.
Notice that in John 6, in his own ending notes of explanatory discussion, includes Jesus having said there, in that exact context (of what would come to be termed Eucharist);
Who should we believe more? Who should lead our thoughts and opinions more when we turn toward consideration for just what the Messiah of Israel was talking about, either Jesus [the] Christ Himself, or those whom came along later?
Let us also not put aside that Jesus was presenting this revelatory teaching to those gathered and hand-chosen deliberately by none other than Himself, individuals from among Jewish men of that era, in fullest context of what those men all their lives previous had observed/acted out in memorial -- the Passover, even the fist Passover in Egypt.
That Passover was itself also foreshadowed in Abraham's own obedience to sacrifice upon an altar of stones, his own son Isaac, who was first-born son of God's own promise which had been made unto Abraham, Ishmael not himself being born fully of the promise, but more after the flesh alone, Abram's wife Sarai having suggested the very idea to Abram to go unto/into her serving maid Hagar in effort to try and help fulfill the promises which God had made to Abram in his much younger years, and had confirmed to him at least once after the initial promise, and yet also repeatedly upon numerous occasion, in the end sending even angelic visitors to announce that Sarah would conceive child by Abraham (the name changes Abram/Abraham Sarai/Sarah seen in Gen.17) -- but I digress.
Returning to John 6;
Leading up to the place where He took the bread (even the bread of the Passover, itself) Himself there breaking the bread, handing it to them saying...take, eat, this is My body broken for you...there are yet two more key passages which many (it seems to me) much overlook or even entirely set aside, similar to verse 63 being all-but never included in citation among those who's emphasis is placed upon the words "flesh" and "blood" while also asserting the rightfulness of Roman Catholic Mass (even to exclusion of all other ecclesiastical community, at times).
In verses 32 & 33, in response to one whom had challenged Him "Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”
took the opportunity there to underline how it was not Moses himself whom had performed/brought about such a "sign", even as He also from there on out compared Himself to manna which had come from Heaven;
32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
Let us pause for moment, and consider:
There is yet another key passage which appears to me to be frequently passed over -- on the way towards the seeming argument of *some* for this "flesh & blood" Christ speaks of as His own (which all must eat thereof or have no part of Him) to in end result, as for our own purposes of understanding --- equate with being something of fleshly, human (for Christ WAS fully human just as much as He was and fully God -- wasn't He?) steak tartare, flesh and blood in the raw as it were...
Yet I myself do not for one moment believe that that sort of concept is the precise conceptual understanding which He was intending to convey...even as at the very same time, He very much WAS indeed asserting that this bread of the Passover was His own flesh and blood -- His own body, broken for us.
For what was that body broken for but for payment for our very own sins?
As Paul wrote (2 Corinthians 5:21)
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
In that way He comes from Heaven to us, having had come to this earth, in the flesh, to be slain for the sins of man, even for the sins of those whom the Father would call unto Himself, as He appeared to the world in the form of the Son, His own Only begotten.
Without that sacrifice of the Son, himself doing so willingly in obedience to the Father --- none can approach the Father, for if not for the Lamb (who Christ is) slain from the foundations of the world, there would not have been, could not have been that time when by the blood sacrifice of animals payment for sin and transgression be made, for as from the foundations --- without shedding of blood -- there can be no remission of sin. Is this not the Christ which many dine upon in form of visible sacrament?
What then truly is this flesh and blood He spoke as being His own?
This question inevitably leads back again to yet another brief passage in John 6 --- which you yourself did not include in your own citation from that chapter --- that passage immediately preceding verse 63 which I have here in this note, in hopes that what was said there be with all due care, considered; that verse coming down to us in conjunction with those both immediately preceding & following;
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?
Yes indeed. What then? How can anyone literally eat His flesh and drink His blood --- that same flesh & blood was made to first --- suffer death itself, in our stead --- to then 3 days later (Justin Martyr speaking of this, as you quoted from translation for that, but obviously must not have counted the days well enough -- Friday eve to Saturday, then to "Sunday" morning not equaling "3" days, as days were accounted for among the Hebrews) rise from the grave, to then be witnessed by 500 persons in varied settings before eventually returning to where He was before?
Now there -- right there, this place "where He was before", does He there (now seated at the right hand of the Father) does this person whom we know of as Jesus have flesh & blood the same as that withing which He dwelled while He lived and breathed (much as we do) walking upon the earth as that saying goes, or is that same flesh now instead an incorruptible "flesh" as it were, something of which the makings of human steak tartare (actual endocannibalism) be impossible for?
The answer to that I do suggest can be found within the next verses;
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” "
Once more, the same question as above, restated, something for us all to consider;
23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:23-24)
I say all of the above to you, for reason that I myself have been given the Grace to both dine upon His holy "flesh" and also to have been given the powers of discernment that He truly is and was there --- Real Presence, which presence within one's own soul communes with & ministers to us in ways & manner which is difficult to describe to those whom have no direct & personal experience of their own with Him. (John 14:20; At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.)
I do believe also that having the Holy Spirit within oneself is necessary for this to be discerned, though I will venture a guess here that in the personal experience of some, including those whom could be identified as Roman Catholic -- their own initial and first time which they were themselves cognizant (discerning) of the presence of Him, by way of the Holy Spirit working within themselves, even towards the slaying of sin nature within themselves, was in context of themselves partaking of the Lord's Supper (also called Eucharist).
It may be -- when some people anyway...first "received the Holy Spirit" and were in that manner then and there, "born of the spirit" (John 3:5) entering then into His kingdom or realm while also yet living in this which we commonly regard as earthly realm.
John 3:8
Can you see here brother, that I speak not on my own authority, but here bear witness to the truth of the Holy Writ?
God is not a man, that he should lie...Numbers 23:19