Posted on 12/15/2014 9:12:57 AM PST by SeekAndFind
24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him,
This is the STUPIDEST thing I have read in a long time
RE: When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him,
Yes, so what exactly was done to him?
The Term “Uncovering the nakedness of your father” in Leviticus refers specifically to the prohibition of incest.
So if one interprets Scripture WITH Scripture, that would be the most probable explanation.
Even though the Torah had not yet been given in the time of Noah, there were still some things that were so reprehensible that people KNEW they were wrong, even without the Law.
This is an example of why I tend to avoid taking the Bible literally in its every aspect. The ‘literal’ meaning of some of the Old Testament is possibly lost to us as there are inevitably metaphors in use in the text that had meaning in their time but not in ours.
“Saw the nakedness” may well have been one of those metaphors or else it may have simply been a tribal taboo to see a naked elder. In any case, Ham did something wrong and he suffered for it. What he did will remain a mystery for the ages and I’m content to accept that and move on.
RE: The Term “Uncovering the nakedness of your father” in Leviticus refers specifically to the prohibition of incest.
You mean Ham had sex with his father? Or was it his son, Canaan ( who was cursed )?
does anything in the scripture support those theories.... NO
so, the answer is no.
“Yes, so what exactly was done to him?”
I don’t know. Just pointing out that it was don by Ham, not Canaan.
It goes along with who is your neighbor. Ham was not the neighbor to love as yourself. Cannan accepted the legacy and inheritence of his father, in his custody, thus the curse.
When it comes to unclear scriptures, it seems to me that GOD KNOWS, and that is fine with me. I do not attempt to figure or guess about it.
If God wants it to be cleared then it will be so. MOO
Interesting. So “uncovering his father’s nakedness” is taken to be “supplanting his father’s authority with his father’s wife”.
I kind of wish that story wasn’t included in the Bible. It kind of ends the heroic story of Noah and his family on a rather sour note.
The Bible presents THE TRUTH about every person ... WARTS AND ALL.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
I read somewhere that “younger son” was used to mean grandchild.
The Bible doesn’t say whether it was Ham or Canaan, of if Ham had sex with his mother (and thus “uncovered the nakedness of his father” according to Leviticus), and if Canaan was the result of such an incestuous union, it might explain why Noah cursed his GRANDSON instead of his son.
We talked about this incident a few days ago in the Jerusalem Thread, and concluded that, since the Torah doesn’t SPECIFICALLY state what the offense was, we are probably better off NOT knowing for sure!
Unfortunately, over the centuries, people have used this passage as an excuse for enslaving Black Africans, claiming that they are descended from Ham.
But the curse was on Canaan, so that whole “argument’ falls apart under scrutiny.
Dumb.
Good to see you post that. Not the usual explanation, but sure makes sense along with:
Leviticus 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
It would go a long way in explaining why *Canaan* was cursed. And, why Canaan's father was so noted, in the list of Noah's sons:
Genesis 9:18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
As if to clarify that Ham - not Noah - is the father of Canaan.
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