Posted on 12/19/2014 1:30:26 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Who could write laws on our hearts?
The answer to that tells whose laws they were.
They could only be God’s laws.
Now, John specifically said "commandments" NOT laws. Then we have Jesus words.
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 39 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Now, He didn't say "hang all the laws". It's the ten commandments they are talking about NOT the laws in the Torah. Jesus said "love thy neighbour as theyself", John mentioned "The one who loves his brother". Again, they were talking about the ten commandments. Those who try to read something else into them are attempting to put us back under the old law and have separated themselves from Christ. Attempting to twist the words and make the Torah laws into the 10 commandments is the work of the enemy.
One could be forgiven, after reading your posts, for thinking that you don’t care for Paul. I apologize for misjudging you on that point.
Where you come up with such confused hostility towards me based on my posts baffles. In the few interactions on this INTERNET forum between us you claim I am:
1) ...”looking for a wall that doesn’t exist to give excuse to work iniquity”
2)...”wishing to be free of the commandments” (and ripe for the strong delusion of 2 Thessalonians)
3)...ignorant of sin’s meaning
4)...promoting “abandonment of the Torah” and thus sin!
That’s a lot of mind reading. I clearly told you I do not promote lawlessness. Not guilty on all counts, Sir!
There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Modern day Judaizers will always make salvation dependent on what we "do" instead of what Christ has DONE. Their accursed gospel is disputed by the SAME word of Christ. Grace isn't grace if we have to add our works to the mix.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
And it comes in many forms. Satan has all bases covered. Take your eyes off grace and he's in control.
>> “Where you come up with such confused hostility towards me based on my posts baffles.” <<
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Not hostility, but outrage at your deceptive attack directed at me.
All four of the items that you list are from reading your posts. If you didn’t mean what you posted, how am I to know?
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Keep on reading, the new commandment of verse 8 is shown to be contained in the original commandments; that is just John’s style of explanation, and why Peter didn’t accuse him as he did Paul, of writing things “hard to be understood.”
The terms Law an Commandments are essentially interchangeable in the NT, as all of the commandments of the NT are demands of obedience to the “first things.” (Torah)
Your attempt to differentiate Law and Commandments has to be facetious.
Finally, the only things “hung on the cross” were the Takanot and Ma’asim issued by the Pharisees, which were all contrary to Torah, and not to be born by his sheep. “All the Law and the prophets” encompasses all of what he called “Scripture.”
The entirety of Torah is love. To James, his brother, it was “the perfect law of liberty.” To John, his best friend, it contained nothing “egregious,” to Solomon it was “the total of man.”
To you, it “appears” to be the river undermining the sandy foundation of your contra-biblical theology presented here.
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“All four of the items that you list are from reading your posts. If you didn’t mean what you posted, how am I to know?”
Well, I told you flatly I was not guilty and yet you KEEP ON SINNING (see 1 John) by slandering me. You will recall what God thinks about slander.
Stop.
No one has slandered you.
Reiterating that which you have posted can hardly be a slander.
Shame!
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Really?
Please explain to me, then, how the following fits with that statement:
(Luke 23:32-43)Obviously the thief came to Jesus and was not driven away, indeed he was assured that he would be with Jesus in paradise, why then would he be driven away or lost because he didn't give a whole lifetime following Jesus, but only a few hours?
Two others also, who were criminals, were led away to be put to death with him. When they came to the place that is called The Skull, they crucified Jesus there with the criminals, one on his right and one on his left. [[Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.”]] And they cast lots to divide his clothing. And the people stood by, watching; but the leaders scoffed at him, saying, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is the Messiah of God, his chosen one!” The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine, and saying, “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!” There was also an inscription over him, “This is the King of the Jews.”
One of the criminals who were hanged there kept deriding him and saying, “Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us!” But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” He replied, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”(John 6:37-39)
Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and anyone who comes to me I will never drive away; for I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
You have not ‘believed’ until you have lived your whole life as he lived, in obedience to his teachings.
I refer you to the above.
You obviously are ignoring the simple fact that from the time of his enlightenment, the thief did endure to the end, and that is exactly what is demanded of all of us.
Or were you being facetious? (do I need more coffee?)
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That's ok.
In fact, that's in the Job Description
of the Comforter, that Jesus said would be sent: the Holy Spirit.
We are creatures of spirit and live in a world of spirits. When one is “moved” or has a revelation by a spirit, it is best to test that motivation by comparing it to what is taught by scripture. That reproof is what allows us to verify that it is the Holy Spirit that is leading us and not the temptation of false spirits.
And you are ignoring that Jesus said that He would lose none of who God gave Him — there's an interesting story about the author of "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" (Robert Robinson) here.
I don't know if it's true, but I am greatly reassured that Jesus said that he will lose none of those that were given him, that no man could snatch them from his hand, as I account myself just such a man wrestling with trying to snatch myself from his hand and wandering away (aye, I have much pride) — Yes, it is reassuring that the object of my salvation is mightier than I and all my sin.
Or were you being facetious? (do I need more coffee?)
Perhaps we both need more coffee. ;)
But what of the Holy Spirit?
Jesus said that Holy Spirit would teach us.
>> “And you are ignoring that Jesus said that He would lose none of who God gave Him” <<
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Here you go again placing your own preferred meaning on a Biblical statement that places it in conflict with other Biblical statements.
All it means is that you have more study to do before making the next assertion. God’s word, properly understood, has no contradictions.
Yeshua said only that he lost none of those given him. (the core disciples, he actually ‘lost’ thousands as noted in John’s gospel)
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We are fully agreed.
There are some, however, who want to deny the power of the Holy Spirit to reveal truth and often denigrate the idea by showing contempt of the the Holy Spirit's work by claiming/insinuating that personally interpreting the scripture is solely based on "feeling"/emotionality. (See Post 142)
When Jesus says I will lose none of them
, it seems pretty clear to me.
When Jesus says no one will snatch them out of my hand
it seems pretty clear to me.
John 10:28 is clearly about the flock of sheep
that had been given him; just a few verses earlier [in Jn 10:16] he mentions sheep not of this pen
(which is/are/were the gentiles) — which were not brought in until after his resurrection and plainly weren't the Twelve.
Likewise, John 10:36 is not strictly about the Twelve either, for a single verse before (Jn 10:35), Jesus says: I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
It seems to me that you are calling Jesus a liar when you reject these, claiming that Yeshua said only that he lost none of those given him. (the core disciples, he actually ‘lost’ thousands as noted in John’s gospel)
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>> “When Jesus says I will lose none of them, it seems pretty clear to me.” <<
But, as I have noted, he didn’t say that.
>> “When Jesus says no one will snatch them out of my hand it seems pretty clear to me.” <<
But who can be “in his hand” if they depart of their own volition?
As I noted in my previous post, the interpretations that you prefer place contradictions in the word.
More study needed.
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