Mary Matters (Dr. Walter Martin on disbelief in the Mother of God)

Catholic Exchange ^ | JULY 26, 2014 | Tim Staples

[Iscool]

When Jesus tossed the money changers out of the temple and turned over their tables, and deprived them of their livlehood, and cost them who knows how much money, and deprived their families of supper that night.......did He sin??

One of the many, many scriptures I'm sure you have never read...

Eph_4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

So why are you asking me??? You don't believe God on that one either???

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

[Iscool]

Now that you mention it, that's the Catholic position as well...The big difference is: I believe the scriptures...

as written by who??...the Catholics, or Luther, or Storch, or Calvin, or knox, or Smyth, or Wesley, or Otterbein, or Campbell...or etc etc etc etc etc.

None of those people wrote any scripture...The Catholics did however come up with their own version of the scriptures by changing a lot of words and adding un-inspired book to them...

[ADSUM]

Your comment; “Do you see any exceptions in that statement? It’s preposterous to think that the apostles sent a letter to all the churches to tell them not to eat blood but then have them sit down and drink blood.”

Then why did the Apostles continue the Mass and the Eucharist and give the “Body and Blood of Jesus” to Catholics. And this has continued for 2000 years.

So you do not see any difference between the “Body and Blood” of Jesus and animal blood?

You say that Jesus is a sinner based on the Last Supper and that Jesus and the Apostles consumed His Body and Blood. And for His instructions to do this in memory of me.

[CynicalBear]

>>I have tried to share the teachings of the Catholic Church.<<

So you put your faith in the Catholic Church? I put my faith in Christ alone.

[CynicalBear]

>>Then why did the Apostles continue the Mass and the Eucharist and give the “Body and Blood of Jesus” to Catholics.<<

The apostles knew it was not the physical body and blood just as the Jews understood that the Seder lamb was not the physical original lamb of Passover. The apostles understood that it was a spiritual remembrance rather than a physical presence.

>>So you do not see any difference between the “Body and Blood” of Jesus and animal blood?<<

The blood of all sacrifices was to be "spilled on the ground" as it was when Jesus was sacrificed on the cross. Commanded never to be eaten or drank.

>>You say that Jesus is a sinner based on the Last Supper and that Jesus and the Apostles consumed His Body and Blood.<<

Especially for Jesus and the apostles as they were still under the old law at that time.

[rwa265]

No, that is not what I am saying. Mary conceived and gave birth to the Second person of the Trinity. She did not conceive and give birth to the Holy Spirit, who came over her. And she did not conceive and give birth to the Most High, who overshadowed her.

Mary can rightly be called the mother of God because Jesus is God, whole and entire, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit are God, whole and entire. They are one God, of one substance, essence, and nature.

Yet they are distinct in their relations with one another. They work as a single operation in all three persons, with each showing forth what is proper to him in the Trinity. This can be seen in John 14, where Jesus tells His disciples that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him, and that the Father who dwells in Him is doing His works. Then He says He is going to the Father, and that He will ask the Father to send another Advocate, the Spirit of truth, who will teach them everything and remind them of all that Jesus told them. The Father, Son, and Spirit, working as one, but each working in what is proper to him.

It was proper for Mary to be the mother of God the Son, but not to be the mother of the Father or the Spirit.

[CynicalBear]

>>Mary conceived and gave birth to the Second person of the Trinity.<<

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Galatians 3:26 for ye are all sons of God through the faith in Christ Jesus,

>>She did not conceive and give birth to the Holy Spirit, who came over her. And she did not conceive and give birth to the Most High, who overshadowed her.<<

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

>>Mary can rightly be called the mother of God because Jesus is God,<<

So why didn't the Holy Spirit inspire the writers to call her "mother of God"?

Acts 1:14 - These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

>>Yet they are distinct in their relations with one another.<<

So you can separate the nature of God but not the nature of Jesus the man?

You say you are looking for answers but I'm sensing you looking more to re-inforce prior beliefs.

[Gamecock]

[ADSUM]

So you put your faith in the Catholic Church? I put my faith in Christ alone.

Do you really? You may be deluding yourself that you believe in Christ alone, but when you don’t believe His Church, you are rejecting Him. (This is in the Bible too.)

Yes I put my Faith in Jesus and in His Church, the Catholic Church.

I do hope that you have true faith and reach salvation with our Lord Jesus.

[2nd amendment mama]

I wish you understood how utterly sad that reply to Mark was. It shows a total lack of understanding of what a regenerated heart is or it’s desires.

You are so correct. To a born again Christian, when we give ourselves to God and our as heart changes we start to change in all ways! Suddenly we don't have the desire to do the things we did, don't have the desire to go to the places we frequented, don't have the desire to hang around with the same people, ect. The desire we DO HAVE is to get closer to God.

When we are Redeemed, we have the desire to please God and everything in our life changes. We don't use the excuse of Confession to allow ourselves to do anything we want to all week because the Priest can make it all go away every Saturday.

[CynicalBear]

Venerate
Synonyms - adore, deify, glorify, revere, reverence, worship
From the Latin veneratus - worshipped, adored, revered, venerated

[ADSUM]

The apostles understood that it was a spiritual remembrance rather than a physical presence.

Your personal opinion. It is not true.

That has never been Christ’s statement or the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Do you just reject the Catholic Church as you can not properly receive Holy Communion from the Catholic Church unless you are a baptized Catholic?

[MamaB]

Amen. You are so right.

[CynicalBear]

>>but when you don’t believe His Church, you are rejecting Him. (This is in the Bible too.)<<

No, that's not in the Bible. What is in the Bible is that if they rejected the apostles they rejected Christ. In no way can the apostles be equated with the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church teaches many things that there is no indication the apostles taught. Paul says that anyone who teaches something they didn't is to be considered accursed.

>>I do hope that you have true faith and reach salvation with our Lord Jesus.<<

I have the guarantee of the Holly Spirit that I have been saved. Do you?

[MamaB]

The CC is wrong. Their teachings are false. I trust the Bible over that.

[MamaB]

Yep. I can not believe the junk they believe.

[CynicalBear]

>>That has never been Christ’s statement<<

"my words are spirit" "the flesh profits nothing".

>>Do you just reject the Catholic Church<<

I reject Catholicism because it is a paganistic religion and teaches things the apostles didn't contrary to God's word.

[ADSUM]

Your comment; “I have the guarantee of the Holly Spirit that I have been saved. Do you? “

I hope you have that in writing from someone with authority.

Otherwise you will face judgement from Jesus when you die like everyone else.

[CynicalBear]

Of course I do, in writing by none other than the infallible Holy Spirit. Why do you ask? Don’t you? You too can have that if you leave that apostate organization and put your faith in Christ alone through faith alone.

[mdmathis6]

If you believe that Jesus is God, then he was perfectly within his authority to have swept the temple clean of such sinners....he even had the right to kill them so a beating was showing the thieves a great deal of mercy! This event was in part a fulfillment of Malachi 3. Read thru verse 5

Malachi 3:1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom you seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom you delight in: behold, he shall come, says the LORD of hosts.

2But who may endure the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appears? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:

3And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

4Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.

5And I will come near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the sojourner from his right, and fear not me, says the LORD of hosts.