Mary Matters (Dr. Walter Martin on disbelief in the Mother of God)

Catholic Exchange ^ | JULY 26, 2014 | Tim Staples

[Iscool]

I explain again: The title “Mother of God” has always meant that Mary is the mother of Jesus, and because Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, who is God, and Mary is his mother, Mary can be properly called the “Mother of God.”

Absolutely not...The Jesus who now sits at the right hand of God is not Mary's son...

You guys seems to think God was made in our image...

[Arthur McGowan]

The Jesus who now sits at the right hand of God is not Mary's son.

At what point did Jesus cease to be the man who was born in Bethlehem and turn into somebody else?

[Arthur McGowan]

Check out post #161.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

The Jesus who now sits at the right hand of God is not Mary's son

What are you trying to say?

Jesus is a single Person, with two natures, human and divine. His human nature has been glorified. This doesn't change the fact that Mary gave birth to Jesus in a stable in Bethlehem.

The Church and the Bible tell us that Mary is the "Queen of Heaven."

Jesus is the King of the eternal, redeemed Davidic Kingdom, the "Kingdom of God," or Christ's Church.

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, (Luke 1:32)

These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. (Rev. 3:7)

In the Davidic kingdom, the mother of the king, the Queen Mother, or "Gebirah," enjoyed an exalted position, above that of the wives of the king. She sat on a throne at the right hand of Solomon.

When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand. (1 Kings 2:19)

Mary is the mother of the King of the eternal, redeemed Davidic Kingdom. She is the Queen Mother of the eternal, redeemed Davidic Kingdom, or the "Kingdom of God." (The Ark, which contained the manna, Aaron's staff, and the decalogue, was a type for Mary, who held within her womb "the bread of life," the eternal High Priest, and the Eternal Word.)

Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm. A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” (Rev 11:19-12:1-5)

[deputytess]

I agree to disagree.

[Arthur McGowan]

It never fails in these discussions about Mary: The hatred of Mary is so powerful in some people that they will deny the divinity of Jesus in order to denigrate Mary. All the while attacking Catholics as "non-Christians" who are "un-Biblical."

[Arthur McGowan]

You will discover that the response you get to any talk about “types” in the Old Testament—which what the Church’s “Sacred Tradition” is mostly about—will be met with scorn. “You’re just making all that up. The Garden of Eden, the Ark of the Covenent, manna, etc., all has absolutely nothing to do with Mary—or Jesus.”

Protestantism lost contact with the spiritual meaning of the Old Testament—i.e., what it has to teach us about Jesus, Mary, the sacraments, the spiritual progress of the Christian, etc.—very early on.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

her role in God’s plan of salvation as Co-redemptrix and Mediatrix... Whaaaat?

"Co" in the sense of cooperation, not co-president.

IOW, Mary's cooperation with the Will of God brought our Redeemer and Mediator into the world. In this sense, she is our Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix. She is not divine.

The terms are ambiguous and confusion regarding their meaning is understandable.

Mary, Mother of Salvation

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

It never fails in these discussions about Mary: The hatred of Mary is so powerful in some people that they will deny the divinity of Jesus in order to denigrate Mary. All the while attacking Catholics as "non-Christians" who are "un-Biblical."

Many Protestants have been taught from the cradle that Catholics make Mary a demigod, or even worship her. This disposes them to reject all Catholic arguments out of hand.

What is frustrating to us is that when we present them with Church teaching directly from the Catechism, or with arguments from Scripture or history, they often ignore them, and then tell us what we really believe-- IOW, what they have been taught by other Protestants about Catholic teaching.

If they want to be effective in their apologetics, they should show evidence of having read and understood our arguments, and then answer our arguments point by point.

[rwa265]

Would you agree with calling Mary the mother of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?

[don-o]

The Jesus who now sits at the right hand of God is not Mary's son...

If that is true, then you are dead in your sins because Jesus of Nazareth has disappeared. This is serious business. And this has been dealt with in the past. Please consider that herein lies the necessity of understanding what exactly was (and still is) at stake with the Seven Ecumenical Councils.

There are sites that are neither Catholic nor Orthodox that will show what the deal was in establishing Christian doctrine against the attacks of the enemy.

[Elsie]

Behold Your Mother: A Biblical and Historical Defense of the Marian Doctrines

I await the book:

Behold Your Son: A Biblical and Historical Defense of the words of John; who was (because Jesus said so) Mary's OTHER son.

Read and understand the all important things HE said in Scripture!!

[Elsie]

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my new book, Behold Your Mother: A Biblical and Historical Defense of the Marian Doctrines,

which is now available at a reduced price if you pre-order before the October release date,

 I spend most of its pages in classic apologetic defense of Mary as Mother of God, defending her immaculate conception,

 perpetual virginity, assumption into heaven, her Queenship, and her role in God’s plan of salvation as Co-redemptrix and Mediatrix.

 

 

"MY" who???

[Elsie]

However, one must be very careful here because when one posits the first person of the Blessed Trinity became the Father, and the second person of the Blessed Trinity became the Son, it becomes very easy to slip into another heresy that would admit change into the divine persons.

So true!

One might even find that Mary had, somehow, BECOME a Co-redemtrix!

[caww]

....”I demonstrate each of these doctrines to be crucial for our spiritual lives and EVEN OUR SALVATION......And I should note that this applies to all of the Marian doctrines”.....

Well the author went off base right out of the gate ...as Mary has nothing to do with out Salvation. That comes fully and completely by and thru Jesus Christ alone.

I do wish they’d quit trading out Jesus from his rightful place. But then in order for catholisizm to survive they have no choice but to do so.

[Elsie]

Is Mary omniscient?

The 'correct' answer is NO; but Facts are...

Let's try some easy math:

There are approximately 1.2 billion Catholics world wide;

If merely 1% of them  'ask' Mary for help just once each day;

that means that 12 million separate prayers are headed Mary's direction every day.

Given that there are 86,400 seconds per day... (24 hours times 60 minutes times 60 seconds)

...that means that Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!

Purty good fer someone NOT 'divine'!

[Elsie]

If our resurrected bodies are like the angels, NO gender, how can Mary be a queen?

?

Where is THIS written?

[Elsie]

How could she become so prior to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, unless, as Catholics hold, she was specially gifted through God’s will to be born without original sin?

OOOPS!

Sinless Mary??

 

 

Luke 2:22-24

 

When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord  (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord”),  and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: “a pair of doves or two young pigeons.”

 

Leviticus 12:7-8

 

Then he shall offer it before the LORD and make atonement for her, and she shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who bears a child, whether a male or a female.
'But if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.'"

[Elsie]

There will be NO comments from the usual suspects confronting, point by point by point, the Christological and Trinitarian problems that arise when Mary is denied the title “Mother of God.”

Post them!

We'll take them on...Point by Point...

[Elsie]

Mary is DEAD, Jim!